World Rallycross R10 - Franciacorta, Italy

[ebby]

So is Solberg gonna take the championship this weekend? Would be nice to see the Hansen team take a win

[tbtstt]

The Hansen cars certainly seem to be on the pace (and far more consistent). I want to see Solberg take the title, but it would be nice to see someone else take the win.

I hope Galli puts on a good show.

Entry list for Italy here:

http://media.rallycrossrx.com/docs/I...try%20list.pdf

40 Supercars
11 Touring Cars
19 Super 1600

[AndyS]

Anyone seen a layout of the track yet?

[rx-guru]

VoilÃ*!: https://www.facebook.com/fia/photos/...type=1&theater

[BertMk2]

Pretty good entry again - Holte back with the Hyundai (does anybody know what the problem was with that?). No Ramona Karlsson though? Eklunds Saab is there with Linus Westman so why not Karlsson in the car? Did I miss something there? (I know she was in an Albatec car last time out but I assumed that it was a one-off swap).

[tbtstt]

They launch almost immediately into turn one? Am I reading that right?

[crossfades]

Ramona Karlsson said she was dissatisfied with the SAAB, it wasn't a car that could compete in the top. After Höljes she demanded that Eklund developed the car to be in the top but decided to quit the whole program together later.

http://www.vf.se/sport/bilsport/ordk...er-skilsmassan

I have also heard that Karlsson apparently ran out of money and couldn't afford to go on with Eklund.

[AndyS]

Originally Posted by rx-guru

VoilÃ*!: https://www.facebook.com/fia/photos/...type=1&theater

Thanks, really ought to get myself on facebook.

[AndyS]

Originally Posted by tbtstt

They launch almost immediately into turn one? Am I reading that right?

Well spotted I hadn't read the numbers and was assuming it went the other way round. If it does go the way the numbers suggest it looks stupidly tight and close to the start.

As usual I'll reserve judgement until after the event, but on first look it seems a bit fiddly. Having said that I didn't think Mettet looked great and that turned out fine.

Please don't tell me that those grey areas marked run off are concentrate run off. I hate that stuff and its been ruination of many a good circuit. If it is I can imagine the phrase track limits being mentioned a few times during the event.

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by AndyS

Well spotted I hadn't read the numbers and was assuming it went the other way round. If it does go the way the numbers suggest it looks stupidly tight and close to the start.

It certainly looks like they were running the circuit that way on the test day:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rr170JyymWs

I see the inevitable tabletops are in there. Hopefully there are no car breakers like at Mettet.

The turn at 1 doesn't look too severe from the air. You can see it in the middle of the screen at 0:20:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGev2oEiZLw

Hopefully they'll come into that at speed rather than having to slow down (and crash into each other!).

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by crossfades

Ramona Karlsson said she was dissatisfied with the SAAB, it wasn't a car that could compete in the top. After Höljes she demanded that Eklund developed the car to be in the top but decided to quit the whole program together later.

http://www.vf.se/sport/bilsport/ordk...er-skilsmassan

I have also heard that Karlsson apparently ran out of money and couldn't afford to go on with Eklund.

Well given the age of the Saab (and size!) it was never going to be a front runner this year was it? Interesting article though - clearly both parties not happy with each other so it's probably best they split. Ramona also seems to think that Villeneuve may not do all the remaining events so the Albatec seat may be up for grabs (presumably there are other drivers who would take a chance in that seat too though - Binks for one).

[crossfades]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

Well given the age of the Saab (and size!) it was never going to be a front runner this year was it? Interesting article though - clearly both parties not happy with each other so it's probably best they split. Ramona also seems to think that Villeneuve may not do all the remaining events so the Albatec seat may be up for grabs (presumably there are other drivers who would take a chance in that seat too though - Binks for one).

I agree, its better they split. Though I had bigger hopes of Karlsson, given she has an impressive past in rallying. Especially since she finished second in the Swedish Rally Championship last year and became the first women to win a rally overall in Sweden. Big difference between her and Henning Solberg, even if Henning is far more experienced

[AndyS]

Originally Posted by tbtstt

It certainly looks like they were running the circuit that way on the test day:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rr170JyymWs

I see the inevitable tabletops are in there. Hopefully there are no car breakers like at Mettet.

The turn at 1 doesn't look too severe from the air. You can see it in the middle of the screen at 0:20:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGev2oEiZLw

Hopefully they'll come into that at speed rather than having to slow down (and crash into each other!).

I must have been under a rock or something when all this got released, totally missed it! Doesn't look so bad on the clip, bit wider than is necessary in places.

The jump was my only bug bear with Mettet, it just didn't need it. I'm not against them but not on every circuit.

[rx-guru]

Originally Posted by crossfades

I agree, its better they split. Though I had bigger hopes of Karlsson, given she has an impressive past in rallying. Especially since she finished second in the Swedish Rally Championship last year and became the first women to win a rally overall in Sweden. Big difference between her and Henning Solberg, even if Henning is far more experienced

Think she didn't expect top notch Rallycross being that tough. In Rallying you drive on your own and you set a pace that is matching your skills. If you do that in Rallycross you're the prey for your competitors. Don't expect her to reach any further than a Semi-Final these days, in whatever car. In Rallycross men need to leave their brains in the paddock, can women do that? Of course Camilla Antonsen was in Germany the first female FIA ERC round winner ever (Susann Bergvall's in 1994 won three 1400cc Cup races were no part of an FIA championship), but TouringCars is another level than SuperCars. Both, by quality and quantity (just 10 TC starters in Germany).

[cg7aa]

Originally Posted by tbtstt

...

I hope Galli puts on a good show.

Likewise! He's gonna be more sideways than Petter. I hope he doesn't try too hard though.

[crossfades]

Originally Posted by rx-guru

Think she didn't expect top notch Rallycross being that tough. In Rallying you drive on your own and you set a pace that is matching your skills. If you do that in Rallycross you're the prey for your competitors. Don't expect her to reach any further than a Semi-Final these days, in whatever car. In Rallycross men need to leave their brains in the paddock, can women do that? Of course Camilla Antonsen was in Germany the first female FIA ERC round winner ever (Susann Bergvall's in 1994 won three 1400cc Cup races were no part of an FIA championship), but TouringCars is another level than SuperCars. Both, by quality and quantity (just 10 TC starters in Germany).

The best drivers comes from rallying and I do believe rally drivers got better skills than rallycross drivers. Although
Karlsson dosen't have the speed, most rally drivers really do.

[rx-guru]

Originally Posted by crossfades

The best drivers comes from rallying and I do believe rally drivers got better skills than rallycross drivers. Although
Karlsson dosen't have the speed, most rally drivers really do.

Sorry, but that is just one point of view. In the past most Rally drivers were only average in Rallycross. Currently there are more and some cope up better with Rallycross these days. However, Petter and Henning Solberg started with Rallycross, while Mattias Ekström started in tarmac racing. Many Rally drivers I have seen live in Rallycross since 1974 had huge problems launching there cars and to fight with several other drivers around them. Rallycross is not only driving skills when driving with a gap to he who is in front of you and he who is behind you. One example people like to come up with for showing how good Rally drivers are doing in Rallycross is when Marcus Grönholm did his first ever Rallycross at Höljes to win the Swedish 2008 ERC round. But if Ludvig Hunsbedt had survived while leading the A final and Kenneth Hansen in second position hadn't backed off for Grönholm the Finn would have presumably finished third, not first. However, I do not generally rate Rally drivers lower than those who never did anything else but Rallycross, like you do it the other way round.

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by cg7aa

Likewise! He's gonna be more sideways than Petter. I hope he doesn't try too hard though.

It wouldn't be Galli if he wasn't trying too hard!

Originally Posted by crossfades

The best drivers comes from rallying and I do believe rally drivers got better skills than rallycross drivers.

I sort of agree with this, as rally drivers - especially at the World level - hone their skills on a variety of different surfaces in all sorts of conditions so they know a thing or two about car control (and car setup).

However I wouldn't say that is a guarantee of rallycross success, as there are obvious difficulties unique to rallycross that rally drivers won't be used to (i.e. traffic!). I daresay the majority of rally drivers who have success in rallycross seem to have some experience in pack racing (or rallycross) earlier in their career.

Originally Posted by crossfades

Although Karlsson dosen't have the speed, most rally drivers really do.

Karlsson is obviously a good rally driver, but you can't compare her to the Solberg's, Gronholm, Eklund, Loeb or even Meeke. She has nowhere near the same level of experience in either rally or rallycross.

[crossfades]

Originally Posted by rx-guru

Sorry, but that is just one point of view. In the past most Rally drivers were only average in Rallycross. Currently there are more and some cope up better with Rallycross these days. However, Petter and Henning Solberg started with Rallycross, while Mattias Ekström started in tarmac racing. Many Rally drivers I have seen live in Rallycross since 1974 had huge problems launching there cars and to fight with several other drivers around them. Rallycross is not only driving skills when driving with a gap to he who is in front of you and he who is behind you. One example people like to come up with for showing how good Rally drivers are doing in Rallycross is when Marcus Grönholm did his first ever Rallycross at Höljes to win the Swedish 2008 ERC round. But if Ludvig Hunsbedt had survived while leading the A final and Kenneth Hansen in second position hadn't backed off for Grönholm the Finn would have presumably finished third, not first. However, I do not generally rate Rally drivers lower than those who never did anything else but Rallycross, like you do it the other way round.

Didn't Grönholm lead from start to finish? I remember that Hansen and Jernberg was slowed down by Stecka (who started with rallying) while going for for Hunsbedt. Grönholm and Stecka did the joker on the last lap, thus Hansen and Jernberg being to far behind of Grönholm. Though, I do agree with you he was a bit lucky in the final.

A top driver in the WRC has all the experience and driving skills needed to be fast in rallycross. I don't rate rallycross drivers lower. But with the amount of driving, driving on different surfaces, professional teams and people being around you in a WRC factory team, rallycross just can't compare to it right now. When Grönholm was in Höljes, I remember a former WRC mechanic who worked for Stecka that said:"One year for a WRC driver is like 10 years for a rallycross driver." A rallycross driver is smarter if he is in between two other drivers. But when in it comes to posting times, a rally driver could just as well put up fast times.

[pettersolberg29]

Petter with an engine change tonight - brings a bit of life back to the title battle!

[pettersolberg29]

Originally Posted by pettersolberg29

Petter with an engine change tonight - brings a bit of life back to the title battle!

Ahh it's back to an old engine so no points penalty - my mistake!

[rx-guru]

15 points penalty (per engine) only if he is using more than 3 engines in the 12 WRX rounds, so from the 4th engine on.

[rx-guru]

Hunsbedt was in the lead when he retired back then. And when Grönholm came out of the Joker Lap detour Hansen was there, but did not take any risk and backed off. I'm certain there would have been contact, if not, but Hansen had the right of way according to the rules. I'm also certain that Grönholm had not taken any care of that rule, so Hansen did the right thing. He would have put his first or second place at stake and would have been the bad guy too in case of a crash...

BTW, there is no doubt that Rally drivers have more experience and practice with all their time and kms in competition. I just say they are not due to that automatically the better Rallycross drivers.

[rx-guru]

Originally Posted by crossfades

When Grönholm was in Höljes, I remember a former WRC mechanic who worked for Stecka that said:"One year for a WRC driver is like 10 years for a rallycross driver."

Was that Sven Inge Neby?

[crossfades]

"When the red light was flashed Grönholm immediately went into the lead ahead of Jernberg and Eriksson while Hansen and also Hunsbedt opted for the joker lap. Eriksson was already forced to retire during the first lap of the final race of the day. In the second lap Jernberg was closing the gap with Grönholm but wasn't able to pass him. After his obligatory pass through the joker lap he re-joined the main track in fifth position. Hunsbedt was succesfull in overtaking Hansen but unfortunately for the Norwegian the wheel of his Volvo broke after the Höljes-jump. Hansen climbed to second place in the race when Grönholm went into the joker lap. The Finn came out of it just in front of Hansen and lead the race until the finish line. Hansen finished second ahead of Jernberg and Walfridsson." Frank Van Rooy wrote this in the report on Rallycross Online. I meant to write they were going for Grönholm in my last post. Though, I am sure of that Grönholm lead all the way ..

And yes, it was Sven-Inge Neby.