Home Mobile Forum News Cookbook FaceBook Us T-Shirts etc.: Europe/Worldwide. eBay Motorsport Links Advertising  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Saloon & Sportscar Racing > Sportscar & GT Racing > ACO Regulated Series


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 27 Nov 2019, 19:26 (Ref:3943262)   #31
TF110
Veteran
 
TF110's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
United States
Posts: 15,017
TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juntos View Post
Will Gordon find the finance to match Toyota or Peugeot? I do doubt.

In times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings--artists, scientists, clowns and philosophers--to create order.
How about ones to create and at the same time do create race winning cars?
TF110 is offline  
Quote
Old 28 Nov 2019, 09:32 (Ref:3943357)   #32
Mike E
Veteran
 
Mike E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location:
Leeds
Posts: 2,625
Mike E is going for a new world record!Mike E is going for a new world record!Mike E is going for a new world record!Mike E is going for a new world record!Mike E is going for a new world record!Mike E is going for a new world record!Mike E is going for a new world record!
It's a BoP formula and we haven't even seen the 'rules' yet, such as they may be. If Gordon Murray designs and builds a Cosworth-engined hypercar, with the intention of competing at Le Mans, performance will be in the ball park. Finding a team to run it properly might be the difference between success and, errr, not-success.
Mike E is offline  
Quote
Old 28 Nov 2019, 14:10 (Ref:3943407)   #33
Juntos
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,366
Juntos is a back marker
I can't see Gordon's new toy showing up in the grid in first place.
Juntos is offline  
Quote
Old 28 Nov 2019, 15:24 (Ref:3943420)   #34
broadrun96
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
United States
Posts: 5,777
broadrun96 will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebroadrun96 will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebroadrun96 will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebroadrun96 will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebroadrun96 will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebroadrun96 will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebroadrun96 will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebroadrun96 will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebroadrun96 will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebroadrun96 will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebroadrun96 will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juntos View Post
I can't see Gordon's new toy showing up in the grid in first place.
For what reason? Other than in my eyes he will NEVER add weight so the insanely high minimum weights won't fly with him.
broadrun96 is offline  
__________________
It was fun while it lasted, have enjoyed the people I've met but the measuring contests and arguments over who's more insider and who's smarter has just made it not worth the effort any longer. It should be fun, not work and it's just work to find actual information.
Quote
Old 28 Nov 2019, 15:42 (Ref:3943425)   #35
Mike Bell
Veteran
 
Mike Bell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
England
Attleborough- 5 minutes from Snet!
Posts: 14,830
Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!
Reading the whole article on that motorsport.com link few posts back, Murray says “Because the new rules are based on performance balancing, hopefully there would be some way for us to run lighter but with less power”.......

Hope it happens- I’m a more optimistic than some posters seem to be!
Mike Bell is offline  
__________________
Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere. (Einstein)
Quote
Old 28 Nov 2019, 15:51 (Ref:3943426)   #36
Chiana
Veteran
 
Chiana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 10,600
Chiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Yes the min weight rule doesn't make any sense given it's nothing more than a BoP Class now. GTE's 1245kg "minimum weight" was a joke too when none of the cars actually run to it, Aston was 1175kg etc
Chiana is offline  
Quote
Old 28 Nov 2019, 16:59 (Ref:3943441)   #37
wolfhound
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Ireland
Posts: 3,300
wolfhound should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by broadrun96 View Post
For what reason? Other than in my eyes he will NEVER add weight so the insanely high minimum weights won't fly with him.

I would not be surprised if Gordon Murray has figured out a way to run under weight during the race and adding weight late in the race.
wolfhound is online now  
Quote
Old 30 Nov 2019, 18:49 (Ref:3943885)   #38
hondafan37
Veteran
 
hondafan37's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Argentina
Buenos Aires, Argentine
Posts: 1,591
hondafan37 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridhondafan37 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juntos View Post
Will Gordon find the finance to match Toyota or Peugeot? I do doubt.

In times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings--artists, scientists, clowns and philosophers--to create order.
Maybe the ACO should eliminate the LMP2 in the WEC and at 24H LM, and replace it with a Hypercar AM in the same style as GTE PRO and GTE AM. Really a Spec category like LMP2 brings nothing and the gentelman drivers could contribute a lot to the development of some Hypercars.
In addition to this Gordon Murray T50, could be available cars like McLaren Senna GTR, Brabham BT62, future Lambo Hypercar track only, Pagani Huayra R, ...... Also could be some Glikenhaus more and some money for the finally appearance of Valkyrie.
hondafan37 is offline  
Quote
Old 1 Dec 2019, 01:35 (Ref:3943955)   #39
TF110
Veteran
 
TF110's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
United States
Posts: 15,017
TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!
Half of those cars are slower than GTE's except on the straights. They need purpose built hypercars that race and then make a street version if they so desire. Sorta like the Mercedes CLK GTR.
TF110 is offline  
Quote
Old 1 Dec 2019, 03:21 (Ref:3943967)   #40
hondafan37
Veteran
 
hondafan37's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Argentina
Buenos Aires, Argentine
Posts: 1,591
hondafan37 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridhondafan37 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by TF110 View Post
Half of those cars are slower than GTE's except on the straights. They need purpose built hypercars that race and then make a street version if they so desire. Sorta like the Mercedes CLK GTR.
Surely you are right and there could be some difference between the different cars but anyway that would be much more interesting than the LMP2.
Remembering what happened in the best years of the GT1:

Le Mans 1995
Best GT1 Ferrari F40 3:55.150
Worst GT1 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 4:27.890
Le Mans 1996
Best GT1 Porsche 911 GT1 3:47.132
Worst GT1 Chrysler Viper GTS-R 4:11.014
Le Mans 1997
Best GT1 Porsche 911 GT1 EVO 3:43.363
Worst GT1 Lotus Elise GT1 3:51.373
Le Mans 1998
Best GT1 Mercedes CLK LM 3:35.544
Worst GT1 McLaren F1 GTR 3:50.863

https://www.racingsportscars.com/pho...ort=Qualifying
https://www.racingsportscars.com/pho...ort=Qualifying
https://www.racingsportscars.com/pho...ort=Qualifying
https://www.racingsportscars.com/pho...ort=Qualifying

The difference was enormous in the first years, it was reduced with the emergence of more developed models and there was no BOP at that time.
I honestly don't think the difference is so big now. And those were the years of the most beautiful cars of Le Mans and it would be good to return those times.
hondafan37 is offline  
Quote
Old 1 Dec 2019, 07:30 (Ref:3943978)   #41
canaglia
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 916
canaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridcanaglia should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by hondafan37 View Post
Surely you are right and there could be some difference between the different cars but anyway that would be much more interesting than the LMP2.
Remembering what happened in the best years of the GT1:

Le Mans 1995
Best GT1 Ferrari F40 3:55.150
Worst GT1 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 4:27.890
Le Mans 1996
Best GT1 Porsche 911 GT1 3:47.132
Worst GT1 Chrysler Viper GTS-R 4:11.014
Le Mans 1997
Best GT1 Porsche 911 GT1 EVO 3:43.363
Worst GT1 Lotus Elise GT1 3:51.373
Le Mans 1998
Best GT1 Mercedes CLK LM 3:35.544
Worst GT1 McLaren F1 GTR 3:50.863

https://www.racingsportscars.com/pho...ort=Qualifying
https://www.racingsportscars.com/pho...ort=Qualifying
https://www.racingsportscars.com/pho...ort=Qualifying
https://www.racingsportscars.com/pho...ort=Qualifying

The difference was enormous in the first years, it was reduced with the emergence of more developed models and there was no BOP at that time.
I honestly don't think the difference is so big now. And those were the years of the most beautiful cars of Le Mans and it would be good to return those times.

actually for 1997-1998 there was some kind of bop since turbo 911 GT1 had less power than NA mercedes/mclaren. 550 vs 600hp.
Anyway main difference is that in late 90 there were so many manufacturers willing to enter that ACO had to even split the main class between LMP and LMGTP in 1999. Today situation is way sadder.
canaglia is offline  
Quote
Old 1 Dec 2019, 11:40 (Ref:3944014)   #42
Chiana
Veteran
 
Chiana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 10,600
Chiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Air restrictors according to displacement & engine types had been a thing for ages before the invention of bop. In some cases the said ratios also applied to weight. That wasn't bopping, it (usually) had a mathematical formula of sorts to back it up. As in it was written in the rulebook and it couldn't be manipulated by results and whatever.

Also, in the day of the old ACO may have balanced classes against each other for overall honors (like the mentioned 1999 open-top-LMP against coupe-LMGTP) via written regulations, but they did not really balance individual cars against each other like they do today.

I would be perfectly fine if they had had two classes of options for overall wins in 2021, and these two classes would have been sort of balanced against each other through regulative methods, yet individual cars wouldn't be touched. That's not manipulation and development-killer as constant individual chassis tweaking is.

Last edited by Chiana; 1 Dec 2019 at 11:45.
Chiana is offline  
Quote
Old 10 Dec 2019, 17:38 (Ref:3945977)   #43
seanyb505
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
United States
Simpsonville, SC
Posts: 1,234
seanyb505 has a real shot at the podium!seanyb505 has a real shot at the podium!seanyb505 has a real shot at the podium!seanyb505 has a real shot at the podium!
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...y-t50-details/

"There will also be two engine modes: one that moves torque lower down, and, as Murray put it, "runs out at what we call Ferrari revs, so around 9500 rpm." Murray says the more aggressive setting is "the one for when you say to your mate, 'Do you want to hear 12,000 rpm going through the tunnel?'"

Ferrari hypercar confirmed I guess.
seanyb505 is offline  
Quote
Old 10 Dec 2019, 18:53 (Ref:3945989)   #44
wolfhound
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Ireland
Posts: 3,300
wolfhound should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Murray's T50 hypercar is to be developed in the Racing point windtunnel and will feature a fan as on his Brabham BT46B.


https://www.autosport.com/wec/news/1...g-point-on-t50
wolfhound is online now  
Quote
Old 10 Dec 2019, 19:02 (Ref:3945993)   #45
Mike Bell
Veteran
 
Mike Bell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
England
Attleborough- 5 minutes from Snet!
Posts: 14,830
Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!Mike Bell has a real shot at the championship!
Think Murray has already stated that the fan aero will be on road car only, unless Hypercar regs are more relaxed than suggested!
Mike Bell is offline  
__________________
Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere. (Einstein)
Quote
Reply

Bookmarks




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Who will put their name to gordon murray's t25? DanJR1 Road Car Forum 1 3 Apr 2009 19:11
Jack Gordon- John Gordon looking for any info on Bahamas Driver Exact10 Motorsport History 3 8 Feb 2009 11:02
Gordon To Irl/Gordon Temper Tantrum/NASCAR freaks out etc thread. Knowlesy NASCAR & Stock Car Racing 31 18 Dec 2008 07:37
[LM24] Gordon "McLaren F1" Murray back to Le Mans? FIRE 24 Heures du Mans 11 18 May 2006 17:14
Jeff Gordon says that Robby Gordon.... Joe Fan NASCAR & Stock Car Racing 13 28 Nov 2001 07:25


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 23:19.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2018 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.