BTCC Rounds 22-24 Snetterton

[porsche962fan]

depends how things panned out as Indy has only about 2 places where you can pass and both can be easy covered

also Sutton has much poorer qualy record than Turkington , except for Knockhill Turkington always had the upper hand on him

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

depends how things panned out as Indy has only about 2 places where you can pass and both can be easy covered

Also very easy to turn another car around......

[WestHam92]

Originally Posted by stuart thompson

Lol, I don’t recall Sutton having to make much work getting past others in the last few meetings.

That's more to do with his talent than being allowed to pass.

[hen henths]

Hi all. I just signed up but I've been reading your BTCC discussions for years and been a BTCC fan from the early 90s. My favourite drivers over the years have been JP, Turks and Ash - make of that what you will!

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

if Sutton loses the title he has only himself to blame, that move at Croft was really stupid,

It's hurt his title hopes for sure but we're judging it with the benefit of hindsight. If the move had worked, which it usually does, he'd be in an excellent position now and we might be calling it a risk that paid off instead of stupid.

[hen henths]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

also Sutton has much poorer qualy record than Turkington , except for Knockhill Turkington always had the upper hand on him

Yeah I can only surmise that this could be a limitation of the Infiniti's performance or handling at the moment.

Ash is fast in the races but fastest race lap times don't usually need to get close to qualifying records (because of traffic on the circuit, everyone looking after tyres and maybe they run less aggressive setups), so maybe in qualifying he's hitting the limit of what the car's currently capable of (and having to over-drive it). He often mentions "a few little issues" after qualifying (would that be because of the aggressive setup?).

I have to say I'm not too optimistic for Brands for Ash if Turks out-qualifies him.

[crmalcolm]

My theory is that the lap times in qualifying are due to a lack of knowledge with a new car. The team are still learning set ups for the Q50, and don't have anything prior as a reference point.
BMW were at an advantage there because their previous model was also RWD.

Sutton is right on it (usually) come race day - partly due to getting the car dialled in through a meeting, and partly due to his race craft being so good.

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by hen henths

It's hurt his title hopes for sure but we're judging it with the benefit of hindsight. If the move had worked, which it usually does, he'd be in an excellent position now and we might be calling it a risk that paid off instead of stupid.

I am sure if roles were reversed , Turkington would have not go for that move , rather focusing to bag confortable 3rd place

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Sutton is right on it (usually) come race day - partly due to getting the car dialled in through a meeting, and partly due to his race craft being so good.

if you see Snetterton , Ash seemed rather disgrunted, maybe cos Turks managed to outcore him even in race 3

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

if you see Snetterton , Ash seemed rather disgrunted, maybe cos Turks managed to outcore him even in race 3

If you were in a title battle, would you be happy being outscored by your closest rival?

[hen henths]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

I am sure if roles were reversed, Turkington would have not go for that move , rather focusing to bag confortable 3rd place

His softly, softly approach doesn't always work against Sutton though. See 2017.

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

if you see Snetterton , Ash seemed rather disgrunted, maybe cos Turks managed to outcore him even in race 3

The Infiniti seemed to have less of an edge on that circuit I thought. In race 2 maybe the roles did reverse a bit as Ash seemed to bank the points rather than fight for every last position and then in race 3 Colin seemed to become more aggressive.

[mprmke]

Some racers are naturally better in races than in qualifying. Collard will probably always be the best example of that. I do think Sutton is a better qualifier than he has shown this season though, so probably something in not having the qualifying experience with the car.

Turkington and Sutton both have incredible racecraft. Comfortably the best on the grid. Sutton is naturally more of a risk-taker than Turkington. With a couple of race weekends to go and with no real urgent necessity to go for one extra high risk place I think Turkington would avoid any high risk manouvres, whereas Sutton would go for it. On the final day of the season, Turkington can be as forceful as anyone, as he proven plenty of times before.

Look back at 2009. The Championship was basically a two-horse race between Turkington and Giovanardi the whole way through. Plato was driving right on the limit and beyond from the early part of the season as he felt he had no chance without winning almost every race. He did win all 3 races on the final day at Brands Hatch and came very close to winning the title, which showed that if he'd been a little more conservative during the mid-season he would probably have ended up as Champion.

Sutton is very much like a younger Plato. Turkington can, has and will when necessary go maximum attack, but he knows when he probably shouldn't.

Every move, every mistake can be looked at with hindsight as being right or wrong when the season is finished. You can say that move was rash/too risky or in race X driver Y should have pushed a little more. You can only make the decisions you do at that race at that time. We can analyse every race if a driver loses the title by one point, but that's not going to change!

[hen henths]

Originally Posted by mprmke

Every move, every mistake can be looked at with hindsight as being right or wrong when the season is finished. You can say that move was rash/too risky or in race X driver Y should have pushed a little more. You can only make the decisions you do at that race at that time. We can analyse every race if a driver loses the title by one point, but that's not going to change!

Well said. And there's always an element of luck, although Turkington's technique of maintaining consistency tries to take that out of the equation as far as possible.

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

If you were in a title battle, would you be happy being outscored by your closest rival?

that's the thing, even in race pace , Turkington did pull away from him with maximum ballast in race 3

the big disappointment was Cammish , for some reson the FK8 did not work this time

[3marinadrive]

Originally Posted by sceptic

Chilton is quietly racking up points by finishing consistently.

Snetterton was a disaster for him, but before this weekend he'd only failed to score in one race.

And he's still ahead of Cook.

Here's an interesting look at the top-ten....if you took out the first two race weekends (being a friend of Jake this is why - I wondered 'what might have been!)

The top-ten drivers would still be the top-ten ...Interestingly the order would change very little;

So if you took out the first two weekends this would be the points;

1 - Cammish - 223 (3)
2 - Sutton - 221 (2)
3 - Turkington - 214 (1)
4 - Ingram - 208 (4)
5 - Butcher - 194 (5)
6 - Hill - 172 (8)
7 - Oliphant - 148 (6)
8 - Cook - 146 (10)
9 - Chilton - 142 (9)
10 - Morgan - 140 (7)

Their current positions in brackets....

So the big change would of course be Cammish and Turkington swapping places...

Jake would be a clear 6th, Morgan down to 10th and the others pretty much as is.

Clearly highlights - as if we didn't know already - that a strong start is as vital as consistency. Jake had only 6 points after Brands & Donington and was P24

Your point re him quietly racking up points is a valid one of course...but Jake has been even stronger in the latter part of the season - and in a car that has just competed in it's 200th race, as opposed to the FK8's, Focus, Infiniti and BMW that are new this year or pretty new - it's only the A-Class that's a similar age that's near the front.

So I'm really looking forward to Brands - the weather will be a huge factor - but a fair few teams tested on the Indy circuit back in Feb and early March so will have data from 'cold' running that could be vital.

May the best driver win!

[bella]

heard the tyres are tricky to get working in the cold, is that the case?

snetterton wasn't that cold, silverstone was only cold if you were stood in the wind but it feels like the weather has turned now...

(yes most of my posts involve the weather, what's your point? )

[Alfisti]

I suspect it's taking Ash until race day to get the car as he wants, or as close as it will get to how he wants. His only reference for setups is the Subaru, and I imagine it is night and day from the Infiniti. Couple this with Ash's tendency to absolutely go for it, which has sometimes lead to mistakes in qualy and practice, and he's a little on the back foot compared to Colin whose car they can start wuth last years setup and be there or thereabouts out of the box.

I see Colin being careful unless he ends up behind Ash point wise for whatever reason. "Win it or bin it" Colin is a very seldom spotted species, but it does exist.

I still think it's between Colin, Ash and Dan Camm and I'm consistently crap at making calls. So I won't!

Cold might favour the Honda...

[Pdh]

Also remember that there was only one free practice at snetterton before going straight into qualifying and the same for brands hatch so that could be also a factor why Sutton didn’t quite seem on form like he has been

[Nononsensecapeesh]

Knowing Turks, he'll do anything to avoid a repeat of 2017 although he has the upper hand over Sutton this time, he's my fave to win just for the sake of beating Rouse's record and winning 3 straight. I'll be happy for Sutton though if he wins it and even more so for Cammish after his near-miss last year. Butcher realistically is out of it.