Acura LMPS at Le Mans

[cthib10]

I was just wondering how everyone thinks the Acura LMP1's in the ALMS would have faired against the other petrol LMP1's at Le Mans this year? Any chance they could have run with the Lola-Aston Martins?

[dj choc ice]

with that amount of drag and that 4.0 V8, i doubt they would have been on the pace, they would have possibly been quick in qualifying but in the race they would have struggled, also, i doubt they would have kept with the Aston's in the racem probably similar in the race to say the Pescarolo P01 EVO maybe?

[AJLav]

The P1 Acura's were built with the tracks used in the ALMS in mind... The huge front wheels are a disadvantage at a track like Le Mans. The downforce created by that front end would be counterproductive to a Le Mans set up. I'm not saying they wouldn't be competitive, but I don't think they could have kept up on the straights, they gain there time through the corners, Le Mans has way to many straights for the Acura LMP1.

But the LMP2 car would have made the P2 battle a whole lot more fun to watch....

[Gingers4Justice]

If Acura wanted to do Le Mans properly, they would redesign their car and would launch a European programme to race at longer, faster circuits like Silverstone, Spa and the Nurburgring the season before.

[cthib10]

So if they were designed to be competitve at ALMS tracks does that mean they don't have the desire to compete at the 24 Hours of Le Mans?

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by cthib10

So if they were designed to be competitve at ALMS tracks does that mean they don't have the desire to compete at the 24 Hours of Le Mans?

Absolutely it does. Acura have no intention to launch their brand in Europe, at this moment in time, and that car is designed solely for the ALMS, nothing else. If Acura do Le Mans, it won't be half-hearted, and they'll do it properly. Wirth Research have been told to be "ready for Le Mans". But that doesn't mean they intend to do Le Mans just yet.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

If Acura wanted to do Le Mans properly, they would redesign their car and would launch a European programme to race at longer, faster circuits like Silverstone, Spa and the Nurburgring the season before.

Why? All they need is a Le Mans aero package utilizing a narrower frt wheel/tire assy. and corresponding thinner frt wheel tubs. Which is all capable of being done by Wirths CFD modeling and then tested at the longer US tracks.




L.P.

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Why? All they need is a Le mans Aero package utilizing a narrower frt wheel/tire assy. and corresponding thinner frt wheel tubs. Which is all capable of being done by Wirths CFD modeling and then tested at the longer US tracks.




L.P.

Yes - and that is redesigning their car.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

Yes - and that is redesigning their car.

Not really,Toma(y)to<>Tama(a)to.
Its just like like Peugeot, Audi, Porsche, Oreca etc.. all having Le Mans specific aero?




L.P.

[johntt]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Not really,Toma(y)to<>Tama(a)to.
Its just like like Peugeot, Audi, Porsche, Oreca etc.. all having Le Mans specific aero?




L.P.

Certainly is, the RS Spyder has a completely different set of bodywork for Le Mans, as does the R15.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by johntt

Certainly is, the RS Spyder has a completely different set of bodywork for Le Mans, as does the R15.

Whatever you wish to think! It is not a redesign of the car but an aero package that is designed for Le Mans. There are several aero packages available for many cars, but that does not mean the car has been redesigned, just the aero.





L.P.

[cthib10]

I think at this time it would really be a waste of money for Acura to pass up an opportunity to run at Le Mans considering they aren't racing anyone in the ALMS that is an awful lot of money to pay to race yourself!

[zac510]

and change the badge from 'A' to 'H'

[Gingers4Justice]

[QUOTE=HORNDAWG;2501039]Whatever you wish to think! It is not a redesign of the car but an aero package that is designed for Le Mans. There are several aero packages available for many cars, but that does not mean the car has been redesigned, just the aero.
But as you were describing a redesign further than just the bodywork - they'd have to do something about the front wheels.

Besides, Nick Wirth said that Acura will not attempt to win Le Mans with this car now, they may end up racing it, but for development - and that's unlikely.

If Acura do Le Mans, they understand that WR will want to build a new car for it.

[HORNDAWG]

[QUOTE=Gingers4Justice;2501104]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Whatever you wish to think! It is not a redesign of the car but an aero package that is designed for Le Mans. There are several aero packages available for many cars, but that does not mean the car has been redesigned, just the aero.
But as you were describing a redesign further than just the bodywork - they'd have to do something about the front wheels.

And you think that using a narrower width rim (wheel) and tire is a redesign of a car??




L.P.

[Gingers4Justice]

[QUOTE=HORNDAWG;2501109][QUOTE=Gingers4Justice;2501104]

And you think that using a narrower width rim (wheel) and tire is a redesign of a car??
No, but they'd have to do more than that. For example, reprofile the wheel arches. One of the issues with the Acura is, and this is coming from Nick Wirth himselg, that everything is so tightly packed that it's very tricky to make modifications. So it's not just narrowing the tires, lots of internal parts will probably need to be redesigned to fit the front without losing pace.

Anyway, as I have said, Acura, if they are going to attack Le Mans, will design a new car - the argument as to wether they could do it with their current LMP is irellevant.

[HORNDAWG]

[QUOTE=Gingers4Justice;2501116][QUOTE=HORNDAWG;2501109]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

And you think that using a narrower width rim (wheel) and tire is a redesign of a car??
No, but they'd have to do more than that. For example, reprofile the wheel arches. One of the issues with the Acura is, and this is coming from Nick Wirth himselg, that everything is so tightly packed that it's very tricky to make modifications. So it's not just narrowing the tires, lots of internal parts will probably need to be redesigned to fit the front without losing pace.

Anyway, as I have said, Acura, if they are going to attack Le Mans, will design a new car - the argument as to wether they could do it with their current LMP is irellevant.

And what pray tell does wheel width have to do with the 'wheel arches'? The fenders (pods) would be narrowed, which is the whole reasoning behind narrower wheels in the first place. To clean up the frt aero. Pick-up points on the chassis would remain the same just lengthen the rods.

As to the assumption that Acura will build a completely new car before entering Le Mans, well, thats up to Acura! So, at this point the ARX-02a is relevant.




L.P.

[Gingers4Justice]

[QUOTE=HORNDAWG;2501129][QUOTE=Gingers4Justice;2501116]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

And what pray tell does wheel width have to do with the 'wheel arches'? The fenders (pods) would be narrowed, which is the whole reasoning behind narrower wheels in the first place. To clean up the frt aero. Pick-up points on the chassis would remain the same just lengthen the rods.

As to the assumption that Acura will build a completely new car before entering Le Mans, well, thats up to Acura! So, at this point the ARX-02a is relevant.




L.P.

I was under the impression that the regulations state you can only use the set diamentions for tires, meaning those tires will also be smaller in diameter as well as skinnier if otherwise I stand corrected. I also didn't read your post properly, I thought you mentioned generally smaller tires.

However, you must agree that that car is designed for those wheel diamentions, and not skinnier tires, and I'm sure that in doing so it may upset the balance of the car. I don't know. But I'm sure WR do.

[HORNDAWG]

[QUOTE=Gingers4Justice;2501151][QUOTE=HORNDAWG;2501129]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

However, you must agree that that car is designed for those wheel diamentions, and not skinnier tires, and I'm sure that in doing so it may upset the balance of the car. I don't know. But I'm sure WR do.

I will agree that the high downforce/mechanical grip/cornering package is optimized for the present wheel/tire combo. Usually when a substantial change is made on one end, the other end also gets adjusted (wing etc..) to keep the balance of the car.




L.P.

[Gingers4Justice]

[QUOTE=HORNDAWG;2501165][QUOTE=Gingers4Justice;2501151]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

I will agree that the high downforce/mechanical grip/cornering package is optimized for the present wheel/tire combo. Usually when a substantial change is made on one end, the other end also gets adjusted (wing etc..) to keep the balance of the car.




L.P.

Yeah, but that would require lots of high-tec, complex resources such as leading CFD software (consider my argument destroyed)

[ss_collins]

Nick Wirth told Marshall Pruett (with his RCE hat on) that there is a ARX-02 Le Mans aero kit, we dropped it from the June cover article for space reasons but a forthcoming online version will have the comments in.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by ss_collins

Nick Wirth told Marshall Pruett (with his RCE hat on) that there is a ARX-02 Le Mans aero kit, we dropped it from the June cover article for space reasons but a forthcoming online version will have the comments in.

Cool!! It will be interesting to see what exactly Nick came up with.





L.P.

[skycafe]

With respect: I believe that frontal area is not the challenge with the Acura, as even with the larger front wheel/tire combination I don’t believe frontal area is significantly larger. The drag coefficient numbers on the Acura are coming from what they are doing with the air over and through the car to give substantial front down force to utilize the larger tire contact patch. Also, the weight distribution of the car is different than a typical chassis in that weight was moved forward also to utilize this increased front potential. The Acura is 50/50 weight distribution as I recall. If you reduce the front tire size you will then have to shift weight around also to compensate in order for the more standard tire configuration to perform. Once you look at undertaking all of those changes, you are better off with a clean sheet design, or, utilize the current P2 as a basis, since it is a high performing conventional chassis, and is I believe homologated to P1 also (or could be).

I don't know, perhaps my hog needs washing...

Oh, and everytime I see WR, I have the momentary pause of thinking 'Welter Racing?'

robert

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by skycafe

With respect: I believe that frontal area is not the challenge with the Acura, as even with the larger front wheel/tire combination I don’t believe frontal area is significantly larger. The drag coefficient numbers on the Acura are coming from what they are doing with the air over and through the car to give substantial front down force to utilize the larger tire contact patch. Also, the weight distribution of the car is different than a typical chassis in that weight was moved forward also to utilize this increased front potential. The Acura is 50/50 weight distribution as I recall. If you reduce the front tire size you will then have to shift weight around also to compensate in order for the more standard tire configuration to perform. Once you look at undertaking all of those changes, you are better off with a clean sheet design, or, utilize the current P2 as a basis, since it is a high performing conventional chassis, and is I believe homologated to P1 also (or could be).

I don't know, perhaps my hog needs washing...

Oh, and everytime I see WR, I have the momentary pause of thinking 'Welter Racing?'
robert

Hmm,:

More importantly, the LM-AR7 allows greater freedom in the placement of ballast compared to the competition's diesels.

L.P.

[skycafe]

No doubt. The major components weighs less in the Acura I believe, so a larger percentage of weight is ballast. What is the ballast percentage on the Acura? Is it enough that it can be used for more than tuning? Still, if you take away too much from the front you are negating the benefits of those larger tires up there. Sure, you can re-engineer the car for smaller front tires, and change the aero and the balance to suit, but then you end up negating all the benefits built into the current P1 chassis (which, btw, would probably be one jaw dropping performer in the Porsche curves). If you are going that direction then upgrade from the current P2 chassis. Except then you are losing the benefits the P1 has in cornering and directional change, which then highlights even more that you have a 4 liter gas engine that doesn’t have the torque of the diesels, which is the reasoning behind the current configuration P1 car-braking, handling, corner speed.