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Old 12 Nov 2023, 17:38 (Ref:4185601)   #2026
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I'm not sure I agree with that. We had it a lot in GTE. We chucked out long term supporters like JMW because Ford wanted 4 cars, and therefore everyone else wanted 4 cars. I don't consider this an upgrade.

I don't think manufacturers should be allowed to saturate a class for the short term whilst hurting private long term supporters.
I agree with this - as an ideal - but when you have manufacturers suddenly turning up en masse, the outcome is almost inevitable. It doesn't mean that it is desirable though, certainly not in the long term, because we know what will eventually happen.
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Old 12 Nov 2023, 17:49 (Ref:4185604)   #2027
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I'm not sure I agree with that. We had it a lot in GTE. We chucked out long term supporters like JMW because Ford wanted 4 cars, and therefore everyone else wanted 4 cars. I don't consider this an upgrade.

I don't think manufacturers should be allowed to saturate a class for the short term whilst hurting private long term supporters.
You got me there, JMW were done more than dirty in that exchange.

But I'd make a distinction between privateers with a proven track record of competitiveness (JMW in this case) and an one that, despite what must be the best efforts of the crew, isn't (Kolles). I think the potential removal of Kolles in favour of a privateer 963/499P is more justifiable along those lines than with JMW and Ford ever was. If there was a true privateer that could step up that would be even better than another manufacturer car, but that isn't on the horizon now or in the near future.

Manufacturers are by no means excluded from this - Nissan & Aston Martin for instance should have both been given the boot and had their spots given to more rewarding entries, privateer or otherwise. Unfortunately, it is far easier for a factory to string along the ACO, for various reasons that have been discussed at length since the demise of LMP1-H.
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Old 12 Nov 2023, 20:22 (Ref:4185631)   #2028
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Ouch, this has NOT gone well for the ELMS should be WEC Jr did it.

It's LITERAL purpose is to help teams and drivers get to WEC. By your logic F2 should include Haas and Alfa cause they aren't winning in F1 but could be run by teams and win in F2. Well yeah, but that's not the purpose of F2
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Old 12 Nov 2023, 21:35 (Ref:4185641)   #2029
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But I'd make a distinction between privateers with a proven track record of competitiveness (JMW in this case) and an one that, despite what must be the best efforts of the crew, isn't (Kolles). I think the potential removal of Kolles in favour of a privateer 963/499P is more justifiable along those lines
Regarding this and your previous post about Kolles v manufacturer entries (#2024 I think?).

Would I rather have a third 499P or the Kolles? I'd take the third Ferrari.
However, would I rather have the Kolles or a seventh or eigth 963? I'd take the Kolles, no matter how poor it is, than have wall to wall Porsches (or any other manufacturer currently involved).
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Old 13 Nov 2023, 12:37 (Ref:4185678)   #2030
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Ouch, this has NOT gone well for the ELMS should be WEC Jr did it.

It's LITERAL purpose is to help teams and drivers get to WEC. By your logic F2 should include Haas and Alfa cause they aren't winning in F1 but could be run by teams and win in F2. Well yeah, but that's not the purpose of F2
It's because that's a football(soccer) mentality, where one chooses to see P2, as well as F2, as if it is some lower ranks to send teams and manufacturers down, so to speak. And while Alpine did this in the last season for them to prepare for their new LMDh, it was a choice by the team/manufacturer, not by the organizers.
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Old 13 Nov 2023, 13:18 (Ref:4185683)   #2031
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If there was a true privateer that could step up that would be even better than another manufacturer car, but that isn't on the horizon now or in the near future.
You are absolutely right. And who is gonna step-up now since there won't be any P2 in WEC anymore ? The gap between entering an P2 in ELMS and a hypercar in WEC is so immense now.

The famous ACO ladder seems broken to me and as it stands I see two solutions to fix it : allow bronze drivers to drive in hypercar and, when current P2 generation is gone (which is a hurdle so difficult to overcome that the ACO still doesn't want it to happen really), allow year old hypercar machineries to go in ELMS.
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Old 13 Nov 2023, 13:29 (Ref:4185684)   #2032
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If there was a true privateer that could step up that would be even better than another manufacturer car, but that isn't on the horizon now or in the near future.
They explicitly banned those. Which is why the ByKolles has a Vanwall sticker of dubious origins on it.
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Old 13 Nov 2023, 14:07 (Ref:4185691)   #2033
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You are absolutely right. And who is gonna step-up now since there won't be any P2 in WEC anymore ? The gap between entering an P2 in ELMS and a hypercar in WEC is so immense now.

The famous ACO ladder seems broken to me and as it stands I see two solutions to fix it : allow bronze drivers to drive in hypercar and, when current P2 generation is gone (which is a hurdle so difficult to overcome that the ACO still doesn't want it to happen really), allow year old hypercar machineries to go in ELMS.

ACO only really care about Hypercar. LMP2 still has it’s place, but it’s not as relevant to LMDH, as it was to LMP1.

I do like your idea of older Hypercars going to ELMS, that would be good practice for those wanting to step up
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Old 13 Nov 2023, 14:21 (Ref:4185694)   #2034
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Bring back the Interserie.
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Old 13 Nov 2023, 15:10 (Ref:4185706)   #2035
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Bring back the Interserie.

That reminds me that it’s been a quite a while since we saw open top sportscars in the major series, like IMSA, ELMS and WEC. Maybe it would be nice to have a series for them
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Old 13 Nov 2023, 16:10 (Ref:4185712)   #2036
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That reminds me that it’s been a quite a while since we saw open top sportscars in the major series, like IMSA, ELMS and WEC. Maybe it would be nice to have a series for them
Go watching classic racing.

Except for some light prototypes (CN class) there are no modern open prototypes, they are all - because of the rules - replaced by closed prototypes. Some of the open prototypes are now raced in series for classic cars.
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Old 14 Nov 2023, 00:35 (Ref:4185770)   #2037
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That reminds me that it’s been a quite a while since we saw open top sportscars in the major series, like IMSA, ELMS and WEC. Maybe it would be nice to have a series for them
I wonder if a current open top sportscar would have to use Halo or Aeroscreen?
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Old 14 Nov 2023, 01:32 (Ref:4185778)   #2038
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I would imagine they’d have to do that.

They could do it and then put a top on it for added protection and rigidity. I’ve seen a render of what that would look like. Open top with aero screen render.

I hope sportscar doesn’t do that - I can’t take the pondering about whether it obscures vision, what you do in the rain, how the driver gets out in an emergency, or if you can keep the driver cool.
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Old 14 Nov 2023, 03:46 (Ref:4185792)   #2039
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I would imagine they’d have to do that.

They could do it and then put a top on it for added protection and rigidity. I’ve seen a render of what that would look like. Open top with aero screen render.

I hope sportscar doesn’t do that - I can’t take the pondering about whether it obscures vision, what you do in the rain, how the driver gets out in an emergency, or if you can keep the driver cool.
In this way it is like it would not make sense for it to be an open top.
I imagine something like the BMW V12 LMR with a Halo.
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Old 14 Nov 2023, 09:25 (Ref:4185806)   #2040
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Old 12 Feb 2024, 08:25 (Ref:4196308)   #2041
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Obviously we have a healthy series!!!!
But I feel that the ELMS should absorb the Hypercars that cannot be in the WEC
1 hypercar is always better than 10 LMP3!!!
No, no it isn't
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