Future Grands Prix?

[Anyopenroad]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

It F1 were ever to go to Laguna Seca, there would be so many ''modifications'' made to the track to suit F1, it wouldn't be Laguna Seca anymore.

What makes so many of the US tracks great is that they have NOT been sanitised to accommodate F1. Laguna Seca is a beautiful, old school jewel of a place. I hope F1 never goes within 100 miles of it. Same for crusty and glorious circuits like Road Atlanta, Sebring, VIR.

Part of me (the cruel, sadistic part) would enjoy watching F1 on Daytona’s banking, but ofc they’d want garages and facilities that are beyond even the “World Center Of Racing”.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

this will require the race to be on saturday night (which is about the only thing i like here) but when in the year?

F1 and Las Vegas are a match made in heaven. Bring on November 2023.

Confirmed as being in November in the FAQs:
https://www.f1lasvegasgrandprix.com/p/7CDH-4T/faqs

Saturday after Thanksgiving?

[Greem]

Well, they have to run it somewhere because the former circuit has been well built over by now

[Purist]

I've heard November for Las Vegas. And I mean, it was going to have to be a cooler part of the year.

i don't think the course layout looks all that much on paper, but I suspect racing there will be as good or better than a number of the more "modern" permanent circuits in F1. (DRS is a universal in F1, so it's an even playing field on that front.)

I do like that they aren't trying to go for a record number of corners. We haven't had a new circuit with so few in 15+ years. Given the lap length, average speed will be high, very much unlike the '80s F1 street circuits here. And I could see 3-4 decent to very good overtaking points per lap.

Yes, in theory, I'd love F1 back at Watkins Glen, or up at Road America, but if that meant butchering those tracks, then F1 can stay the hell away from them. Funny thing is, the "infield" extension done to Laguna Seca for the 1988 season was an attempt to draw F1 there.

As for street circuits in F1, Jeddah seems like the gold standard now. It's a spectacular setting, actually being right there in the city proper, unlike Valencia. It has the waterfront, unlike Vegas. And there are a number of spots where, though it's a fast circuit, the cars are visibly very much on edge, a rarity these days. Or if it isn't, you just can't tell on the Grade 1 permanent circuits nowadays, really. I haven' seen top-level open-wheel cars hang the tail out like that on the limit since CART ran Vancouver.

One thing I've seen brought up that will definitely have to be looked at is the track lighting. The city surroundings are the point here. If the floodlights in Vegas drown out everything else, like is the case on the ground in Singapore, you've just defeated the purpose.

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Saturday after Thanksgiving?

Thanksgiving weekend is taken by college football rivalries. The previous weekend is much better.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Anyopenroad

What makes so many of the US tracks great is that they have NOT been sanitised to accommodate F1. Laguna Seca is a beautiful, old school jewel of a place. I hope F1 never goes within 100 miles of it. Same for crusty and glorious circuits like Road Atlanta, Sebring, VIR.

Yes

Originally Posted by Purist

Yes, in theory, I'd love F1 back at Watkins Glen, or up at Road America, but if that meant butchering those tracks, then F1 can stay the hell away from them. Funny thing is, the "infield" extension done to Laguna Seca for the 1988 season was an attempt to draw F1 there.

And... Yes.

Don't ruin iconic US circuit just to support F1. Also, I think F1 is looking to be close to metropolitan areas. They want hotels, airports, ease of access, fine dining, etc. Take VIR for example. Its an awesome and very old-school track (my home track), but it's absolutely in the middle of nowhere.

Originally Posted by Purist

One thing I've seen brought up that will definitely have to be looked at is the track lighting. The city surroundings are the point here. If the floodlights in Vegas drown out everything else, like is the case on the ground in Singapore, you've just defeated the purpose.

That is an interesting topic. I suspect they will do significant track lighting as the "strip" while bright, would not be bright enough to race on. As to it overshadowing the rest of Vegas, I don't see it happening. I think it will still look fantastic on the wide helicopter shots. It will be interesting to see what is done from a spectating perspective. Outside of watching from hotel windows, I wonder if it might not be a good race to view in person.

As to US now hosting three races. I think it is great that F1 is getting market penetration in the US. I think COTA has continued to sell out. I think Miami has sold out and I expect Vegas will as well. I do wonder if after the initial "wow" factor of the first races in Miami and Vegas happen if they will continue to draw a crowd. For me personally, I am attending COTA this fall (first time to a F1 race in a long long time) but frankly would not go to two or three races in a year.

Richard

[S griffin]

I agree, leave the great US race circuits where they are. Personally I think F1 is getting too big for it's boots with these constant new venues. If there weren't so many races on the calendar, it would be much better for the sport. America is a great country, but we don't need 3 GPs there IMO

[bjohnsonsmith]

The only time three F1 GPs were held in the US in the same year was 1982: United States Grand Prix West at Long Beach on April 4, the Detroit Grand Prix on June 6 and Caesar's Palace Grand Prix on September 25.

[veeten]

Gonna have to keep an eye on those drivers. You know those tables will be calling them. Reasons as to why it's also known as "Lost wages"...

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

Thanksgiving weekend is taken by college football rivalries. The previous weekend is much better.

And ESPN has PLENTY of games for TV as does ABC. You want a Saturday night race it will HAVE to be the weekend after. Thanksgiving week is rivalry week, there's no opening for F1 in that with The Mouse. The next weekend is usually fill in random stuff and Army-Navy (CBS coverage so no problem there). It will be an ABC OTA race not cable

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

It F1 were ever to go to Laguna Seca, there would be so many ''modifications'' made to the track to suit F1, it wouldn't be Laguna Seca anymore.

Laguna ain't getting modified in layout any time soon. It took YEARS to sort out management and the state/county own the land it's on and surrounded by.

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Yes


And... Yes.

Don't ruin iconic US circuit just to support F1. Also, I think F1 is looking to be close to metropolitan areas. They want hotels, airports, ease of access, fine dining, etc. Take VIR for example. Its an awesome and very old-school track (my home track), but it's absolutely in the middle of nowhere.


That is an interesting topic. I suspect they will do significant track lighting as the "strip" while bright, would not be bright enough to race on. As to it overshadowing the rest of Vegas, I don't see it happening. I think it will still look fantastic on the wide helicopter shots. It will be interesting to see what is done from a spectating perspective. Outside of watching from hotel windows, I wonder if it might not be a good race to view in person.

As to US now hosting three races. I think it is great that F1 is getting market penetration in the US. I think COTA has continued to sell out. I think Miami has sold out and I expect Vegas will as well. I do wonder if after the initial "wow" factor of the first races in Miami and Vegas happen if they will continue to draw a crowd. For me personally, I am attending COTA this fall (first time to a F1 race in a long long time) but frankly would not go to two or three races in a year.

Richard

VIR is so in the middle of nowhere you have to leave the state to get to the track and no roads go straight there. I looked at going when I lived in Blacksburg and it was crazy long drive.

And yes, the circus wants the fancy accommodations over what we peons can afford. Thankfully I think that removes all US tracks outside of Indy and COTA. Hell I'm still worried about Nascar trying to bring national series racing to Road Atlanta and what they'd do to screw that up. Home track and I'm there usually once a month during the season, it's fine the way it is just bolt the bogs to the floor please.

[Skam85]

Very good by Mercedes

https://twitter.com/MercedesAMGF1/st...XwEbzjICWL8sEQ

[Sodemo]

Its a difficult and often controvertial topic is "circuit safety". I do love the fact that not many of the US tracks mentioned in the posts above have been altered too much over the decades that have passed. I guess the FIA has a much stricter policy on what is considered "safe", rightly or wrongly. I personally thought the Saudi Arabia track was actually pretty good and was a real "drivers test", however I know that some drivers have voiced concerns over its safety levels after a number of big accidents in 2021 and 2022. I am not really sure where to go on this because on the one hand we want tracks that test drivers and punish mistakes (dont we?) but on the other hand no one wants to see drivers hurt. I do think that there is a level of hypocrisy when they pass tracks like Saudi Arabia as "safe", but then insist on pulling apart tracks like Silverstone, Spa, Monaco etc. I think one of the classic things F1 does is go to an older track, say that it wants to run there again, makes massive changes to remove all is character and challenge and then dumps the venue after a few races. Mt Fuji is the best example of this, but I can offer the A1 Ring, Donington Park and even Brands Hatch as slightly less relevant cases.

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

And ESPN has PLENTY of games for TV as does ABC. You want a Saturday night race it will HAVE to be the weekend after. Thanksgiving week is rivalry week, there's no opening for F1 in that with The Mouse. The next weekend is usually fill in random stuff and Army-Navy (CBS coverage so no problem there). It will be an ABC OTA race not cable

The weekend after Thanksgiving has the college football conference finals, and the following week has the NFL "Monday Night Saturday Edition". I think that early/mid November is the best.

[Mike Harte]

Sodemo, something in the back of mind tells me that the decision to no longer have F1 at Mt Fuji was actually taken by Toyota who own it. I think that it was that they could no longer afford to run the race there. I don't believe that the FIA or FOM dropped the races there.

Suzuka has the advantage that it is a "theme" park which includes the race track, and is therefore financially sustainable.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

The weekend after Thanksgiving has the college football conference finals, and the following week has the NFL "Monday Night Saturday Edition". I think that early/mid November is the best.

There's ZERO, REPEAT ZERO chance before the end of the season if they want a Saturday night race. It's just not happening on The Mouse. They'll want an OTA race broadcast, and Saturday night has football coverage on ESPN/ABC and the rest of the channels. There's only ONE game and NOT on ABC/ESPN after the season. They are NOT going to take NCAA games that they pay through the nose for to put on a race that will draw 5% of the viewers.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Its a difficult and often controvertial topic is "circuit safety". I do love the fact that not many of the US tracks mentioned in the posts above have been altered too much over the decades that have passed. I guess the FIA has a much stricter policy on what is considered "safe", rightly or wrongly. I personally thought the Saudi Arabia track was actually pretty good and was a real "drivers test", however I know that some drivers have voiced concerns over its safety levels after a number of big accidents in 2021 and 2022. I am not really sure where to go on this because on the one hand we want tracks that test drivers and punish mistakes (dont we?) but on the other hand no one wants to see drivers hurt. I do think that there is a level of hypocrisy when they pass tracks like Saudi Arabia as "safe", but then insist on pulling apart tracks like Silverstone, Spa, Monaco etc. I think one of the classic things F1 does is go to an older track, say that it wants to run there again, makes massive changes to remove all is character and challenge and then dumps the venue after a few races. Mt Fuji is the best example of this, but I can offer the A1 Ring, Donington Park and even Brands Hatch as slightly less relevant cases.

While safety is part of it. I think the vast bulk of legacy tracks in the US (or elsewhere) that potentially might be interesting to host an F1 race are already FIA Grade 2 (meaning not far off Grade 1). And while the grading system does call out specific targeted power to weight ratios between grade 1 vs. 2. and there would likely be changes required around "safety" (talking pure track, runoff, barriers, etc.) types of changes, there are also a slew of other infrastructure changes that would be required (Pit/Paddock, Media, Medical, etc.) that would be imposed upon the circuit. Lots of money to be spent and for existing circuits that may not have a large footprint, it may require significant rework. I expect the requirements over the years for a "Grade 1" have done nothing but gotten progressively "fatter" year after year. Some for safety reasons and some for other reasons. Much like the cars.

I guess what I am saying is that if F1 maybe didn't need to crank the entire circus up to eleven all the time, they might be able to fit into circuits that otherwise might say "no" to F1. F1 has experimented with ideas at times. Stuff like the Saturday sprint race, etc. It would be interesting for them to experiment with a "light weight footprint" race. Cut down on the amount of equipment they bring, same for portable facilities, etc. and see if a much more intimate and "old school" event might be fun. But that would never happen. Too much change. Probably would be too much of an ask for the teams to "slim down" for an experiment.

Originally Posted by broadrun96

VIR is so in the middle of nowhere you have to leave the state to get to the track and no roads go straight there. I looked at going when I lived in Blacksburg and it was crazy long drive.

Haha, yeah, it is right on the NC/VA boarder. The main entrance is in NC and the track is in VA.

It is at least a hour drive from the closest US interstate (I-40/85). And those to the north are much further away. It's all somewhat "back roads" to get there. But in a weird way, I have a relatively straight shot to VIR from my house. It's only 1hr 20 minutes away for me.


But much like how the Red Bull Ring in Austria has beautiful landscape surrounding the track, VIR is the same with lots of classic farmland, forests and the nearby Dan River.

Richard

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

I guess what I am saying is that if F1 maybe didn't need to crank the entire circus up to eleven all the time,... It would be interesting for them to experiment with a "light weight footprint" race. Cut down on the amount of equipment they bring, same for portable facilities, etc. and see if a much more intimate and "old school" event might be fun. But that would never happen. Too much change. Probably would be too much of an ask for the teams to "slim down" for an experiment.

What?? And give up their champagne coolers, golden toilets and all the luxuries?? Instead we'll pay lip service to the "green" ideas by using different fuels and having a hybrid. Willing to bet the power needs to communicate EVERY detail to the factory and run simulations takes more fuel than used running EVERY minute of both cars on track. But that would be like the big green initiatives that ignore the fact that having every TV, radio, music, social media feed available 24/7 is POWER hungry and the heat developed to run the needed infrastructure. But I digress.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Sodemo, something in the back of mind tells me that the decision to no longer have F1 at Mt Fuji was actually taken by Toyota who own it. I think that it was that they could no longer afford to run the race there. I don't believe that the FIA or FOM dropped the races there.

Suzuka has the advantage that it is a "theme" park which includes the race track, and is therefore financially sustainable.

Re the Toyota link the last Mt Fuji race was 2008 and Toyota quit F1 in 2009 . IIRC by then the idea was to alternate Fuji and Suzuka holding the GP...... with the Toyota withdrawal from F1 in '09, and the fact the 2110 GP was due to be held at Fuji, but given the economic conditions and the closure of its F1 operation, Toyota decided as Mike says to can the GP on economic grounds.

[broadrun96]

And now Toyota has WEC at Fuji so they're happy

[S griffin]

Yes, Toyota has all it needs in WEC, so they have a lot to be happy about there

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

There's ZERO, REPEAT ZERO chance before the end of the season if they want a Saturday night race. It's just not happening on The Mouse. They'll want an OTA race broadcast, and Saturday night has football coverage on ESPN/ABC and the rest of the channels. There's only ONE game and NOT on ABC/ESPN after the season. They are NOT going to take NCAA games that they pay through the nose for to put on a race that will draw 5% of the viewers.

while im totally inclined to agree with you, i also cant help but wonder if they have a different plan altogether?

its Vegas so is a PPV event out of the question? their desire to monetize the US market probably has more to do with the size of the gate rather then number of eyeballs watching.

and a couple of weeks back, Domenicali was talking about their deal with Netflix and their need to see this area grow. depending on the article or quotes you read it either sounds like they expect more from Netflix to they are looking for a new streaming partner to take it to the next level.

so speaking of the Mouse, could they be looking to do something through their Disney+ service possibly even thinking live streaming of specific F1 races...essentially take another page from the NFL playbook and their Thursday Night deal with Amazon Prime.

basically a creative way to sell games on off nights that no one is really that interesting in watching anyways?

live streaming of sports is the next frontier for streaming services and being honest, if Disney+ offered an option to include or even add on an F1TV plan to my disney service then thats a much easier sell to me.

obviously just speculating, but its Vegas so i expect their solution will somehow cost us all more money!

[S griffin]

I just think this is quite an ambitious project F1 is doing, it's obvious this Vegas event is going to be for big bucks. I mean F1 hasn't exactly had a great relationship with America, so why do we need 3?

Really I think Domenicalli needs a change of tact. He seems to be more interested in showbusiness than the actual sport.

I just hope we don't see F1 on some streaming service like Disney+. What's fine for one sport is not necessarily fine for another.

I just feel this Vegas event is all wrong and kind of sums up how greedy F1 and Liberty have become. Putting it on streaming services is just driving away more audiences. We'll see if anything good comes of this GP

[Sodemo]

I would be interested to see viewing figures for the last few years. Anyone know of a resource?

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I just think this is quite an ambitious project F1 is doing, it's obvious this Vegas event is going to be for big bucks. I mean F1 hasn't exactly had a great relationship with America, so why do we need 3?

Putting aside the question of three races. I am curious as to what you mean by not having a great "relationship"? Are you talking about the historic lack of interest (when compared to much of the rest of the world)? The fallout from the 2005 USGP (which is now nearly 17 years ago and probably most new US F1 fan don't even know about). Or something else?

Originally Posted by S griffin

Really I think Domenicalli needs a change of tact. He seems to be more interested in showbusiness than the actual sport.

This this not what F1 has been doing for decades? Especially driven by Ecclestone during his time at the helm?

Originally Posted by S griffin

I just hope we don't see F1 on some streaming service like Disney+. What's fine for one sport is not necessarily fine for another.

I just feel this Vegas event is all wrong and kind of sums up how greedy F1 and Liberty have become. Putting it on streaming services is just driving away more audiences. We'll see if anything good comes of this GP

Am I missing something somewhere? The race was just announced and now it is only available on streaming services like Disney? Is this fact or speculation? I have searched online and can't find any mention anywhere that F1 is changing how they are delivering content?

Richard

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Am I missing something somewhere? The race was just announced and now it is only available on streaming services like Disney? Is this fact or speculation? I have searched online and can't find any mention anywhere that F1 is changing how they are delivering content?

Richard

I think - the connection to Disney comes from the following sequence of posts:

I linked the FAQs, which confirm that the race will be a Saturday Night (US time) in November. In my post I speculated about it being the weekend after Thanksgiving.

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Confirmed as being in November in the FAQs:
https://www.f1lasvegasgrandprix.com/p/7CDH-4T/faqs

Saturday after Thanksgiving?

There then entailed a couple of posts discussing the other sport being shown around that time. This resulted in:

Originally Posted by broadrun96

There's ZERO, REPEAT ZERO chance before the end of the season if they want a Saturday night race. It's just not happening on The Mouse. They'll want an OTA race broadcast, and Saturday night has football coverage on ESPN/ABC and the rest of the channels. There's only ONE game and NOT on ABC/ESPN after the season. They are NOT going to take NCAA games that they pay through the nose for to put on a race that will draw 5% of the viewers.

This reference to 'The Mouse' was taken (rightly or wrongly - I'm not sure) to be a reference to the race being streamed on Disney+:

Originally Posted by chillibowl

so speaking of the Mouse, could they be looking to do something through their Disney+ service possibly even thinking live streaming of specific F1 races...essentially take another page from the NFL playbook and their Thursday Night deal with Amazon Prime.

As I understand it - F1 races in the US are shown on ESPN?
With ESPN being 80% owned by The Walt Disney Company - I think this is the reference to 'The Mouse'.
Again, just from quick research, I think 'ESPN and Sports Content' and 'Disney Media and Entertainment Distribution' are run as two entirely independent divisions within the Walt Disney Empire?