Onboards..

scoobiesnoop · 15 Jul 2009, 00:11 (Ref:2501942)

I was just looking at the onboard vids at the official F1 site (single laps only) and (if you watch) the Button Monaco 09 lap shows something quite remarkable. Everyone knows how the cars like to move about but I always thought a well balanced (set up) car would be super stable and not really move about much. Buttons car is all over the shop and you really get a sense that these cars are a handful even if they are the best on the grid. I got the impression that the car always wants to get away from the driver so I have an even bigger respect for F1 drivers than I already had. At first I thought it was just because Monaco is bumpy but if you watch other tracks (other drivers) you see the same thing (although to a lesser degree). Makes you think, maybe us armchair drivers would 'struggle' if we were to ever get the opportunity to drive an F1 car!

JeremySmith · 15 Jul 2009, 00:21 (Ref:2501945)

I have said for a while now that the cars are way to loose, They are all over the place, the new aero rules have not worked as expected this year..

Steve Machett from Speed TV was saying that the Brawn diffuser has made overtaking way harder this year..Which in one way is quite clever on their behalf on the other it's gives us the same old problem for the teams running behind the Brawn cars..

If you watch the cars as they get really close to the rear end of the car in front the wash away, making overtaking just as hard as it was before.

So I would like to see good looking F1 cars again, without these cheap looking rear and front wings and stupid looking shark fin engine covers...

runshaw · 15 Jul 2009, 00:38 (Ref:2501947)

It is true that the cars are difficult to drive, even though people often refer to years gone by when the cars were 'more' difficult to drive. For instance Sebastien Loeb said that driving the Red Bull around Barcelona was more difficult than driving his C4 on a rally stage, which is surprising! Anthony Davidson said the cars are often ridiculously hard to handle on the pressue of a qualifying lap, getting on the throttle out of a slow-ish corner with that much power and so little weight can immediately send you off into the barriers. I'm still amazed they keep it on the limit for 70 laps, even if they do have semi-automatic boxes! You have to drive round a track on or near to the limit to appreciate that it isn't easy at all, even when your just in a relatively quick sportscar. Can only imagine what its like in an F1 car...

Jimmy Magnusson · 15 Jul 2009, 00:51 (Ref:2501949)

Anything but this simply isn't enough in my opinion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjWtLYzopUU

I'm not saying F1 cars are easy to drive. But that stuff sure looks better!

Lotusonpole · 15 Jul 2009, 07:17 (Ref:2502023)

That's why they drive F1 cars and I drive a desk.

P

Marbot · 15 Jul 2009, 07:39 (Ref:2502036)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

I have said for a while now that the cars are way to loose, They are all over the place, the new aero rules have not worked as expected this year..

If the cars were 'running around on rails' the problem would be even worse.The cars are running much closer this season,but they haven't gone far enough in making them 'loose' enough.

ROB IS THE STIG · 15 Jul 2009, 08:43 (Ref:2502060)

I want to see the "best" drivers in the world having to really "drive" these cars, no traction control - great, no perfect aero - great, get rid of kers, launch control and anti stall and then we'll see who can handle them.

scoobiesnoop · 16 Jul 2009, 20:54 (Ref:2502994)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROB IS THE STIG

I want to see the "best" drivers in the world having to really "drive" these cars, no traction control - great, no perfect aero - great, get rid of kers, launch control and anti stall and then we'll see who can handle them.

Yeah I think they still need to loose aero but I guess the fact that the cars are moving about so much mean that it is more and more becoming a good driver that wins rather than a good car.

**Adam43** · 16 Jul 2009, 20:59 (Ref:2502997)

OT: "KERS" makes "a" car "more" difficult to drive, "IMHO".

These cars are difficult to master. They are removed from the experience of most normal people. Sometimes a car that moves around alot, if it is in a controlled way can be easier to drive. It can give more margin.

The Carroll video is cool, but it was a mistake and has never been the quickest way to drive a car. The front and rear aren't together. That was cool like a chase in the A-Team is. Cool, but it aint quick.

sizzle · 17 Jul 2009, 02:23 (Ref:2503074)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam43

Cool, but it aint quick.

And that is a problem because?

HughGJohnson · 17 Jul 2009, 07:07 (Ref:2503119)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

If the cars were 'running around on rails' the problem would be even worse.The cars are running much closer this season,but they haven't gone far enough in making them 'loose' enough.

The cars have monster front wings and small ineffective rear wings. Plus the tires are the same size. The aero rules didn't work and the cars are extremely aero dependent. These cars have been designed to have wicked oversteer, there more aero sensitive than ever and you want to loosen them up? Forget overtaking you couldn't even get close enough to think about it.

Marbot · 17 Jul 2009, 08:19 (Ref:2503155)

Quote:

Originally Posted by HughGJohnson

The cars have monster front wings and small ineffective rear wings. Plus the tires are the same size. The aero rules didn't work and the cars are extremely aero dependent. These cars have been designed to have wicked oversteer, there more aero sensitive than ever and you want to loosen them up? Forget overtaking you couldn't even get close enough to think about it.

They are actually much less aero sensitive than before,the cars do actually get closer because of the configuration of the wings.Unfortunately they probably have now already got around the same amount of downforce that they had last season!

HughGJohnson · 17 Jul 2009, 11:35 (Ref:2503239)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

They are actually much less aero sensitive than before,the cars do actually get closer because of the configuration of the wings.Unfortunately they probably have now already got around the same amount of downforce that they had last season!

How much less aero sensitive can they be if they have the same downforce?

I was mostly concerned with your solution. More oversteer is not the anwer. I thought it was criminal that they legislated an unbalanced racecar and I was shocked that you thought the didn't go far enough.

Marbot · 17 Jul 2009, 11:49 (Ref:2503245)

Quote:

Originally Posted by HughGJohnson

How much less aero sensitive can they be if they have the same downforce?

Down force and aero sensitivity aren't necessarily as one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HughGJohnson

I was mostly concerned with your solution. More oversteer is not the anwer. I thought it was criminal that they legislated an unbalanced racecar and I was shocked that you thought the didn't go far enough.

I would prefer it if they were 'loose' at both ends.Hopefully next seasons regulations will make ammends to this.

kartracer41 · 17 Jul 2009, 11:57 (Ref:2503254)

The intention was to lose some aero and make up for it with mechanical grip (slick tires). Brawn had to spoil that with the diffuser. Now everyone is back up where the aero was.

I wouldn't say the cars were designed "unbalanced". I am sure they are quite balanced. It might be unbalanced in terms of how much aero vs mechanical grip at each end. But grip wise, I am sure they are quite balanced. Some drivers can't drive a car unless it's loose, while others like a tight car, so there is going to be some margin of balance. Also, a car that has a push can appear loose when too much steering input is given to overcome a tight condition which causes the rear to step out.