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Old 25 Feb 2020, 12:09 (Ref:3959751)   #586
grantp
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grantp should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridgrantp should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridgrantp should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
There's a photo that suggests the engine is an Offy according to the plate shown.


Can't be a Lotus no matter what its origins - it clearly lacks added lightness.
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Old 25 Feb 2020, 13:35 (Ref:3959772)   #587
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grantp should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridgrantp should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridgrantp should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Anyone know how to get a Volvo XC90 to start after adding ad-blu?
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Old 25 Feb 2020, 14:31 (Ref:3959779)   #588
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Anyone know how to get a Volvo XC90 to start after adding ad-blu?
A few details might be handy .
But am guessing that it is a diesel , & the Ad blu was poured into the tank & it will not start .

Ad blu should only be put in before filling up with fuel so that the fuel going in mixes it up .
You could try putting a load more fuel into the tank to stir it up . Then take the fuel filter off , drain it , refill the filter unit with clean diesel , hand pump the pressure up , [ if it has one ] , then try a start . That might need doing a couple of times until it picks up clean .
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Old 25 Feb 2020, 14:55 (Ref:3959781)   #589
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A few details might be handy .
But am guessing that it is a diesel , & the Ad blu was poured into the tank & it will not start .

Ad blu should only be put in before filling up with fuel so that the fuel going in mixes it up .
You could try putting a load more fuel into the tank to stir it up . Then take the fuel filter off , drain it , refill the filter unit with clean diesel , hand pump the pressure up , [ if it has one ] , then try a start . That might need doing a couple of times until it picks up clean .

örm
the AdBlue is supposed to go into a seperate tank, not mixed into the diesel tank (its not like two stroke oil)

problem is that with modern diesels the injection pumps / injection valves rely on the diesel oil lubricating the pump. use the pump with anything other than diesel will result in the pump and/or injection valves failing

the add blue wrong filling is a new one to me

but a regular occurence is housewifes filling petrol into a diesel car

rule of thumb, if You realise it early enough, with lets say 5 % petrol in diesel, just add as much diesel as possible and simply drive it

anything significantly more then 5 %, DONT start it, have it dismantled and drained, and the pump and rails and valves refilled with diesel to provide initial lubrication
Thats Jaguar Land Rover reccomendation

a female friend of ours did not realise her mistake and drove off in JLR Discovery, causing a major repair bill, she was beside herself for days


my wife - cautioned by that story, realised her mistake when it happened to her, but too late to dilute and drive it, too much petrol in the tank already, JLR towed it, minor problem, small bill ! everybody happy. "could have been worse"

it there is so much ad blue in the diesel tank that the car does not start, then either the injection pump / valves are already damaged or will die when the car is made to fire up,

those modern high pressure diesel injection systems are very easy to damaged because of the very fine tolerances

I am told the VW "pump jet" diesel whith individual cam operated small pumps per cylinder in the cylinder head are much worse, put the petrol in these and the engine is wrecked as the cylinder head / pump assembly gets ruined.
cheaper cars like Lupos have ended up as scrap repair not economical

gone are the days of adding petrol in winter to the diesel to help starting

but then todays diesel fuel is also different, less prone to go solid at low temperatures

RuE

Last edited by Rudernst; 25 Feb 2020 at 15:01.
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Old 25 Feb 2020, 15:02 (Ref:3959785)   #590
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Not sure Grant poured add blue in the diesel tank. i found this but even in french I can't understand!
https://www.volvocars.com/fr-be/supp...-de-l-adblue-r

https://www.volvocars.com/uk/own/mai...tenance/adblue
Always refer to the owner's manual, they say!!!

Last edited by Gerard C; 25 Feb 2020 at 15:14.
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Old 25 Feb 2020, 15:17 (Ref:3959789)   #591
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Just done some reading up & Rudemst is right . If it is more than just a little Ad blu then it should not be started & the fuel system drained .

So my memory must be playing up as we used to have some additive we would put in the diesel tanks before filling , which apparently cannot be Ad blu which should have a different tank .
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Old 25 Feb 2020, 15:20 (Ref:3959792)   #592
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Rudernst should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRudernst should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRudernst should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
now I realise...

some cars dont start when the add blue tank is empty
to save the environment

I have been advised "dont run the add blue tank empty, its a complete hassle"

Volvo requires at least 3 litres add blue in the system to unlock the engine

Many eastern bloc trucks have this lock out dismantled to save the cost of ad blue
system is fooled into thinking the add blue tank is full
truck runs fine

this is so widespread that some German highway police have been trained how to spot this cheat

RuE
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Old 25 Feb 2020, 15:24 (Ref:3959793)   #593
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If what RuE says above is what's happened, the car may need to be connected to some sort of diagnostic tool to re-set the system, or to tell it that the ad-blue has been re-filled. If I could have some more details about the vehicle (age & engine size etc.) I may be able to find out.
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Old 25 Feb 2020, 16:15 (Ref:3959812)   #594
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Hmm. Here's the tale ...

Car was indicating 390 miles before Ad-blue would run out. Car has 3600 mile recorded so presumably the Ad-blue tank was not full when delivered new.

It was driven 12 miles and parked outside our house (across the drive on a very slight slope. So something like parking in a pavement.

Would not start - saying Ad-blue required. Minimum .9ltr.

Managed to get my car off the drive (awkward ..) and went and bought a contained that turned out to be 3.5 ltrs of Ad-blue. Tipped that into the Ad-blue tank. Ad-blue gauge showed tank half full. Warning stopped. Still no start. Some noises from under the bonnet even when nothing apparently happening.

Volvo were called. Could not add anything to the diagnosis and said they would send someone to have a look. Would take about 90 mins.

Daughter stranded here with 2 grandsons - all because she had locked herself out of the house and needed our spare keys.

Son-in-Law came here on way home from work. Found something in another part of a manual somewhere that indicated a minimum of 4.5ltrs of Ad-blue would be required for the system to recognise that it had been topped up (One wonders why since it had not actually failed through being empty). So he went and got a 10ltr + container and filled the tank. After which the systems took a while to reset themselves and the thing started.

It was a good job that worked since the service people had called back to say they could not get anyone out for another 4 or 5 hours - so 6 hours rather then 90 minutes as primised.

So, interesting lessons learned.

Quite why the system needs 4.5 ltrs minimum fill and did not complain enough to present an on screen message when telling us that the Ad-blue tank was now half full after I had put 3.5 ltrs in it I'm not sure. That and failing to work in the first place simply because is was parked on a slight sideways incline makes me question the design. Bear in mind that with the car parked and parking brake on we could not even push it a car's length onto the flat to see it that made any difference. No way of releasing the brake (that we could discover) without starting the engine.

I very nearly picked up another container of Ad-blue anyway as a possible last resort but knowing nothing about recent diesels and Ad-blue decided I would leave that to Son-in-Law whose arrival was imminent.

The more I discover about about the results of recent regulation and the effects on product complexity the less inclined I am to consider buying any sort of recent car. When they are older I can only imagine that the complexity and associated costs will drive them from the market well before the useful life, in core engineering terms, has been attained.

Thanks for your help everyone. A most interesting afternoon one way or another and not at all what I had planned! Very informative though. I now know something about Ad-Blue. Indeed much more that I ever thought I would need to know! Also that the Volvo Ad-blue gauge shows about 4ltrs as being half full in a tank that must hold at leat 14 ltrs based on what it had in it by the end of the afternoon.
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Old 25 Feb 2020, 16:30 (Ref:3959816)   #595
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Originally Posted by VIVA GT View Post
If what RuE says above is what's happened, the car may need to be connected to some sort of diagnostic tool to re-set the system, or to tell it that the ad-blue has been re-filled. If I could have some more details about the vehicle (age & engine size etc.) I may be able to find out.

Hi Viva,

Many thanks for the offer.

As you can see it's now resolved but as background its an XC90 (Nov '19 iirc) with 2ltr engine Just the regular bottom end of the range model. It's the second one they have had but I don't recall any issues ever being mentioned with the previous one in the 2 years for which it was leased.
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Old 25 Feb 2020, 16:30 (Ref:3959817)   #596
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Grant, this sounds like the tank level sensor is the discrete type. I did some work on testing the pump systems for one of the manufacturers. There were some with ultrasonic level sensors that gave a continuous output. Others had a magnetic float and several reed switches to indicate only certain level points (empty, almost-empty, 1/2 full and full). Looks like Volvo uses the float/reed switch type. So the tank had to be filled enough to trigger the right switch to reset the fault.

Doug
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Old 25 Feb 2020, 16:44 (Ref:3959820)   #597
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Ah the joys of adblue and regenerative exhausts.
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Old 25 Feb 2020, 16:46 (Ref:3959821)   #598
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Never put adblue into the diesel tank, if you do then don't start the engine, that's if it will start, or you'll totally **** the engine big time.
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Old 25 Feb 2020, 16:47 (Ref:3959822)   #599
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Originally Posted by Rudernst View Post
now I realise...

some cars dont start when the add blue tank is empty
to save the environment

I have been advised "dont run the add blue tank empty, its a complete hassle"

Volvo requires at least 3 litres add blue in the system to unlock the engine

Many eastern bloc trucks have this lock out dismantled to save the cost of ad blue
system is fooled into thinking the add blue tank is full
truck runs fine

this is so widespread that some German highway police have been trained how to spot this cheat

RuE

Well we thought that would be enough as explained above but it turns out it's now 4.5 ltrs. But why? When I went to pick some up from out local shop the standard size was 3.5 ltrs - and I thought that was a lot! (Not realising how big the tank is.)

Even more annoying was that the car was reporting nearly 400 miles range to empty only 12 mile before it decided not to start.

So one way or another the series of events, for the uninitiated, did not point to an obviously logical conclusion.

I don't think daughter is very impressed with this particular car. It has already suffered from a large windscreen crack that started from an A pillar when the car was parked outside their house one morning. No obvious reason for that either. Where do they manufacture the XC90s these days I wonder? Must check the chassis plate next time I have an opportunity.
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Old 25 Feb 2020, 16:54 (Ref:3959826)   #600
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Originally Posted by Rudernst View Post
Many eastern bloc trucks have this lock out dismantled to save the cost of ad blue
system is fooled into thinking the add blue tank is full
truck runs fine

this is so widespread that some German highway police have been trained how to spot this cheat

RuE
The police and DVSA in the UK check for cheat devices here and it's treated as a major crime if they are caught with the devices
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