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Old 20 Aug 2015, 19:13 (Ref:3567315)   #76
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tobias gruner has a twitter post saying that each mclaren driver will use two new engines this weekend. i guess the clever bit is that they will essentially take two races worth of penalties this weekend freeing them to run unpenalized in Monza. (here)

way to turn a bad rule into an opportunity. brilliant imo!
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Old 20 Aug 2015, 21:22 (Ref:3567345)   #77
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Originally Posted by chillibowl View Post
tobias gruner has a twitter post saying that each mclaren driver will use two new engines this weekend. i guess the clever bit is that they will essentially take two races worth of penalties this weekend freeing them to run unpenalized in Monza. (here)

way to turn a bad rule into an opportunity. brilliant imo!
Good for them!

All joking aside... if the penalties are assessed for that weekend alone, how many engines could you conceivably cycle through in a weekend if you wanted to create a backlog? Assuming your mechanics were magicians... One per practice session and then one engine for qualification and race?

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Old 20 Aug 2015, 21:37 (Ref:3567349)   #78
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pirenzo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridpirenzo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridpirenzo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith View Post
Alonso and Button to get grid penalties as they use their seventh Honda engines of the season.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/120370

I don't like these grid penalties. It's not the driver's fault. The team/engine manufacturer should have constructor's points deducted instead.
I agree, but all the while the teams have a say in it, that won't happen.

Oh well, at least the pressure is off this weekend now and it becomes a glorified test session.
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Old 20 Aug 2015, 22:27 (Ref:3567368)   #79
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Good for them!

All joking aside... if the penalties are assessed for that weekend alone, how many engines could you conceivably cycle through in a weekend if you wanted to create a backlog? Assuming your mechanics were magicians... One per practice session and then one engine for qualification and race?

Richard
haha, they have had a wee bit of practice changing engines this year so maybe they can do one per session.

also i had assumed that Honda used up all of their tokens for the year with this upgrade. that is apparently not the case so i suspect another upgrade will come before the end of the year (which is perhaps what Arai was talking about) so im guessing we will see them use this trick again at some point....unless the other teams have a meltdown and start complaining.

either way this sort of lateral thinking is what i love about Mclaren. the remainder of the season might just be a test session for them but i feel like their fighting back might also be the only highlight left for the remainder of the season.
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Old 21 Aug 2015, 09:45 (Ref:3567455)   #80
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mikuni should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridmikuni should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I'm fairly certain the penalties roll over. If they get a 10 place grid penalty and can't serve all of the penalty, they must continue serving the penalty until it is all paid up. If this is not the case I'll not only stand corrected, I'll also be happy.

So far McLaren Honda is not really demonstrating a big improvement, but I suppose they are very close of speed with Williams and Sauber, so not entirely bad.
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Old 21 Aug 2015, 12:34 (Ref:3567474)   #81
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I'm fairly certain the penalties roll over. If they get a 10 place grid penalty and can't serve all of the penalty, they must continue serving the penalty until it is all paid up. If this is not the case I'll not only stand corrected, I'll also be happy.
Autosport states:
'Following a rule change last month, the most a driver can be penalised is to be demoted to the back of the grid,'

And on the official website:
'The ensuing penalties - to be confirmed by stewards later - will likely drop both McLarens to the back end of the grid.

With untaken grid drops no longer converted into in-race penalties following the recent rule change, it raises the likelihood of McLaren taking the opportunity to use a further, eighth engine on both cars on Saturday. Such a change would incur further penalties, but these would have little or no impact on the team's starting positions for Sunday's race.'
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Old 21 Aug 2015, 12:49 (Ref:3567481)   #82
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McLaren was dismal in FP1 for Belgium GP and they seem to be just as bad in FP2 (running right now). How much is car and how much is power unit? I think they were slow at the end of Kemmel straight.

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Old 21 Aug 2015, 14:27 (Ref:3567498)   #83
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i would have expected them to put in more then 15 or so laps each per session.

edit: some red flags?
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Old 21 Aug 2015, 15:30 (Ref:3567511)   #84
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They didn't run many laps. I expect red flags had some impact, but I think they just were not out on track much.

Regarding FP2 speed traps data. I caught one of the graphics on screen and it showed McLaren down near the bottom, but... they were not alone. Williams was back there as well (and lingering at the back half on lap times as well). Given Williams is running Mercedes power, I am starting to come around to the idea that the problems with McLaren (and Williams) is not mostly down to the powerplant.

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Old 21 Aug 2015, 16:35 (Ref:3567522)   #85
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I agree, but all the while the teams have a say in it, that won't happen.

Oh well, at least the pressure is off this weekend now and it becomes a glorified test session.
Well we know it's a team decision and not one made by the drivers alone, so the team should be penalised not the driver.
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Old 21 Aug 2015, 17:24 (Ref:3567532)   #86
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pirenzo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridpirenzo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridpirenzo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Well we know it's a team decision and not one made by the drivers alone, so the team should be penalised not the driver.
Any proposal to sanction the teams via points deductions or fines would have to pass through the "strategy group" and would be dismissed by the teams there and then. Making it harder to score points (but not totally discounting the possibility) is one thing; points deductions are a near guaranteed loss of FOM income.

Back on topic: Honda's improvements appear very modest (putting it kindly), and the FIA have dished out 55 places worth of grid penalties for their troubles

Apparently the speed deficit was up to 23km/h at the end of the Kemmel Straight (I'm struggling to find full speed trap figures though).

Perhaps they'll turn up the wick a bit tomorrow.
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Old 21 Aug 2015, 20:46 (Ref:3567566)   #87
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wolfhound should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
It looks like this season is a complete write off as far as McLaren is concerned with the new engine upgrade leaving them more or less where they have been all season (unless the new engine is not going into the cars until Saturday).
However engine is only part of the PU problem as their MGU-K is apparently giving away 150 H.P. to the opposition. No wonder the McLaren's are so slow up the hill to Les Combes. The MGU-K will not be solved this season either according to Eric Boullier. On the car side the McLaren is weak in fast corners so overall not looking good for Spa, Monza, Suzuka, Interlagos.............

http://plus.autosport.com/premium/fe...594.1432368537

At this rate it will be 2018 before McLaren will be challanging for race wins
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Old 22 Aug 2015, 02:03 (Ref:3567614)   #88
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I think Arai san better go and recalibrate his dynamometer!

The good news about only having one customer team is you can share the blame when your engine is faulty, there is no corroborating evidence from other teams.
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Old 22 Aug 2015, 12:36 (Ref:3567671)   #89
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Any proposal to sanction the teams via points deductions or fines would have to pass through the "strategy group" and would be dismissed by the teams there and then. Making it harder to score points (but not totally discounting the possibility) is one thing; points deductions are a near guaranteed loss of FOM income.
Penalising your driver so he's at the back of the grid doesn't really help either.

Back on topic both McLarens fail to get into Q2.
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Old 22 Aug 2015, 15:05 (Ref:3567690)   #90
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TrapezeArtist should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTrapezeArtist should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTrapezeArtist should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Well we know it's a team decision and not one made by the drivers alone, so the team should be penalised not the driver.
Win together, lose together.

There has to be a limitation on engine changes, otherwise someone would be using one qually engine and one race engine per GP and the costs would be just ridiculous. So having set a limit of x engines per year, how do you enforce it? Telling teams they can't race for the rest of the season is a no-goer. Applying a grid penalty ensures that there is plenty of disincentive to swap engines willy-nilly, yet keeps the show on the road.

I really don't get this idea that only the team should receive certain penalties because the failure was outside the driver's control. What about when a mechanic fails to tighten a wheel properly? Are you going to give the driver points even when his wheel fell off? What about when the driver bins it? Are you going to give the team constructor points for where they were when the crash happened?
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