Ode to Coventry V12

Splendid Cat · 19 Nov 2005, 23:31 (Ref:1465241)

Bahrain marks the last race of the factory Lister Storm GT. It also appears (unless a private Storm runs in FIA GT next year) to be the swansong of the Jag V12.

Take a moment to think about it:

15 World Sportscar Wins (1x86, 8 x 87, 6 x 88)
2 World Sportscar Championships (87, 88)
2 Le Mans 24 Wins (88, 90)
2 Daytona 24 Wins (88, 90)
16 ETC Wins (4 x 82, 5 x 83, 7 x 84)
1 Spa 24 Win (84)
1 ETC Championship (84)
1 Bathurst 1000 Win (85)
12 FIA GT Wins (5 x 2000, 3 x 2001, 3 x 2002, 1 x 2003)
1 FIA GT Championship (2000)
2 Outright BGT Championships (99, 01)
1 Transam Championship (78?)
1 SCCA Championship (? Tullius E-Type)

Plus Imsa race wins 1982-1989, plus Macau Group A 1984, plus Nurburgring Supercup 1986 etc

The motor was still winning in 2005 - FFSA GT, Pau (Lister Storm).

Magnificent record, magnificent motor.

Please come back Jaguar.

JAG · 20 Nov 2005, 01:46 (Ref:1465305)

Despite the sports popularity, look how quickly the Jaguar F1 program has been forgotten.

Jaguar desperately needs to return to Le Mans, and compete for wins.

Its sporting reputation is shot to pieces, they still hark back to the glory days at Le Mans to boost their image.

cybersdorf · 20 Nov 2005, 02:52 (Ref:1465320)

Klaus Graf, 2005 Trans-Am champion. Alright so it isn't a V12.

Fogelhund · 20 Nov 2005, 03:49 (Ref:1465336)

I wonder how many wins, Porsche's flat six, in its various iterations, has won in comparison.

Dani Filth · 20 Nov 2005, 06:46 (Ref:1465384)

about 10 times as much .. at least . .
but still a great engine

Splendid Cat · 20 Nov 2005, 09:48 (Ref:1465458)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

I wonder how many wins, Porsche's flat six, in its various iterations, has won in comparison.

Predictable response. If one is to compare wins then you will surely need to factor the number of starts. The Jag engine has never appeared en masse at races unlke the Panzer divisions of Porsche's flat 6. IIRC the highest number of Jaguar V12 powered cars in a major international race is 5 (Le Mans 88).

TheNewBob · 20 Nov 2005, 15:57 (Ref:1465641)

It's thanks to the Jag V12 engine being in the Lister that I ever got into sportscar racing in the first place! Being someone who missed the Grp C era, I don't know if it can apply to the older cars, but have always loved seeing the Lister on track for the beautiful engine note. Both the car and the engine - I'm going to miss them desperately!

If comparing the achievements of Porsche engines and Jaguar - would it be fair to judge it via a percentage? As in number of cars and number of wins to starts etc...? Would take quite a lot of research, however.

**Adam43** · 20 Nov 2005, 20:37 (Ref:1465861)

We had a bye bye Lister thread which may be of interest not too long ago: http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...12#post1394988

Above i what I said.

A wonderful engine. V12

cybersdorf · 21 Nov 2005, 07:06 (Ref:1466170)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splendid Cat

The Jag engine has never appeared en masse at races unlke the Panzer divisions of Porsche's flat 6.

"Predictable response." - Jaguar never sold customer cars. But that was Jaguar's problem, really. Compare the works cars to the works cars if you want comparison.

Splendid Cat · 21 Nov 2005, 13:33 (Ref:1466497)

Quote:

Originally Posted by cybersdorf

"Predictable response." - Jaguar never sold customer cars. But that was Jaguar's problem, really. Compare the works cars to the works cars if you want comparison.

So we talk in praise of the Jag V12. Will be much missed by most, and then the thread appears to become a criticism of it 'v' other motors.

If you're from GB you'll understand the relevance of this motor vis a vis national pride and heritage, and I mean understand (as opposed to being aware of)

Jaguar never sold customer cars - so what? Exclusivity has a certain appeal. Yep - works 956 / 962s are much lauded, by me as well. But, if we are being pedantic let's compare Group C Works Jags v Group C Works Porsches.

85 . 3-0 to Porsche (Shah Alam, Brands, Mosport)

86. 2-1 to Porsche (Monza and Le Mans 962, Silverstone Jag)

87. 4-1 to Jaguar (Jarama, Jerez, Monza, Silverstone - Porsche wins Le Mans). Clearly other 4 Jag wins that year not included as works Porsche team withdrew

88 1-0 to Jaguar (Le Mans). No works 962s in any other events

So its Works Porsche 7 Jaguar 6 in head to head group C races. So, not much in it really.

Thanks and regards,

Splendid (Magnificent) Cat (Pussy)...

Splendid Cat · 21 Nov 2005, 16:44 (Ref:1466630)

It's actually 6-6. So pretty good then.

cybersdorf · 21 Nov 2005, 17:29 (Ref:1466659)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splendid Cat

So we talk in praise of the Jag V12. Will be much missed by most, and then the thread appears to become a criticism of it 'v' other motors.

No it isn't, noone is criticising anything. If you would like to just post a statement without others reacting then why not say "no replies please" or something similar.

Quote:

If you're from GB you'll understand the relevance of this motor vis a vis national pride and heritage, and I mean understand (as opposed to being aware of)

Let's see, yes I am capable of understanding things I am aware of. I am also aware I am dealing with a ardent Jaguar fan, which is fine. What I am not aware of is what you are complaining about, noone has said anything against the engine you love so much. Fine engine. There.

Quote:

Jaguar never sold customer cars - so what?

So the percentage of Porsche wins will automatically be higher because they have sold loads of customer cars. Which is what the initial poster said - no less, no more - and which you have chosen to misunderstand. Jaguar's pride & heritage isn't in need of this kind of help I don't think.

"Please come back Jaguar" - now that there is an Aston Martin racing programme, what are the odds for FoMoCo bankrolling a Jaguar project on top of that. Sorry to say this but Jag will have to wait its turn. Which is not to distract us from the initial subject.

JAG · 21 Nov 2005, 18:16 (Ref:1466686)

'"Please come back Jaguar" - now that there is an Aston Martin racing programme, what are the odds for FoMoCo bankrolling a Jaguar project on top of that. Sorry to say this but Jag will have to wait its turn. Which is not to distract us from the initial subject.'

I would agree if they were actually bankrolling the Aston project.

Maybe the Aston program is Fords equivalent to Audis Lamborghini program.

Splendid Cat · 21 Nov 2005, 21:21 (Ref:1466855)

Quote:

Originally Posted by cybersdorf

So the percentage of Porsche wins will automatically be higher because they have sold loads of customer cars.

But you said compare the works cars if you want a comparison, which I did my friend.

Continuing Jag's theme, if Ford was bank rolling Aston Martin I am pretty certain that there would be a confirmed double car entry in next year's ALMS.

Well anyway, nothing has ever quite got me as excited about Le Mans as a works Jaguar team, V12 powered naturally.

Ardent Jag fan? - sportscars yes. That foray in to Uncle Bernie's scalextrix tournament - don't make me laugh. Nonsense from start to finish.

Oh, my old fella's got an S-Type and I think it's bobbins!

JAG · 21 Nov 2005, 22:20 (Ref:1466927)

Theres a completely new range of Jags out soon.

The ideal time to return to the track.

Garp · 22 Nov 2005, 12:49 (Ref:1467410)

It's about time Jaguar delivers a reason for JAG to switch his avtar in something more recent.

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