40 minute races for German Cars

andy97 · 27 Nov 2010, 11:01 (Ref:2796375)

The CSCC are to build on the success of their "Future Classics" series for Pre-1990 Sports, Saloons & GT Cars and introduce a new series for 2011. The series, to be known as "Deutsche Marque" will be for Post-1990 German car makes and will feature 3 classes: A - Up to 2499cc, B - 2500cc to 2999cc and up to 1999cc Turbocharged cars and C - Over 3000cc.

The series has come about due to the large demand that the club has had for post 1990 cars to be able to race in the existing "Future Classics" series, the majority of requests being from German car owners. It wasn't possible to add a newer class into FC as the grids were already full so a new series has been created.

The usual CSCC stipulations of standard size and shape body shell, no sequential gear boxes, original engines to type and List 1A or 1B tyres will be maintained. Races will run over 40 minutes with a compulsory pit stop for one or two drivers.

CSCC hope to attract owners of the larger engined VW Golfs, Ventos, Corrados & Beetles etc. along with Porsche 968s, 993s, 996s, Boxsters, Audi TT & A4s etc, BMW 3 & 5 series and similar Mercedes (although Porsche GT3s won't be allowed....too quick!). The club will display a "Deutsche Marque" car on its stand at the Autosport International show in January and further details of the series will be available on the CSCC Website shortly.

German cars from before 1990 can, of course, race in CSCC's existing Swinging Sixties, Tin Tops & Future Classics series.

grantp · 27 Nov 2010, 15:26 (Ref:2796470)

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy97

The CSCC are to build on the success of their "Future Classics" series for Pre-1990 Sports, Saloons & GT Cars and introduce a new series for 2011. The series, to be known as "Deutsche Marque" will be for Post-1990 German car makes and will feature 3 classes: A - Up to 2499cc, B - 2500cc to 2999cc and up to 1999cc Turbocharged cars and C - Over 3000cc.

The series has come about due to the large demand that the club has had for post 1990 cars to be able to race in the existing "Future Classics" series, the majority of requests being from German car owners. It wasn't possible to add a newer class into FC as the grids were already full so a new series has been created.

The usual CSCC stipulations of standard size and shape body shell, no sequential gear boxes, original engines to type and List 1A or 1B tyres will be maintained. Races will run over 40 minutes with a compulsory pit stop for one or two drivers.

CSCC hope to attract owners of the larger engined VW Golfs, Ventos, Corrados & Beetles etc. along with Porsche 968s, 993s, 996s, Boxsters, Audi TT & A4s etc, BMW 3 & 5 series and similar Mercedes (although Porsche GT3s won't be allowed....too quick!). The club will display a "Deutsche Marque" car on its stand at the Autosport International show in January and further details of the series will be available on the CSCC Website shortly.

German cars from before 1990 can, of course, race in CSCC's existing Swinging Sixties, Tin Tops & Future Classics series.

Would it also mean that Opels and most Fords could be included? Though I'm not sure which models would best fit - if any.

MGDavid · 27 Nov 2010, 15:48 (Ref:2796472)

are cars built by companies owned by BMW allowed?

**Tim Falce** · 27 Nov 2010, 15:51 (Ref:2796474)

Quote:

Originally Posted by grantp

Would it also mean that Opels and most Fords could be included? Though I'm not sure which models would best fit - if any.

Skoda as well?

andy97 · 27 Nov 2010, 17:21 (Ref:2796501)

I'm going to have to get guidance on the Opel/ Ford question!! My very personal view is that Opel is a German marque with a continuous German manufacturing history (albeit now owned by GM!) so should be in. Ford is a US company that has some units made in Germany so is not a German marque (in the same way that Toyota & Nissan are not British companies despite having factories here).

Cars from companies owned by BMW/ VAG etc such as Mini, Skoda/ SEAT/ Lambourghini are definately not in.

andrewc · 27 Nov 2010, 17:44 (Ref:2796514)

I've posted this to Racing Exposure, I hope you don't mind.

G.Walker · 27 Nov 2010, 18:03 (Ref:2796518)

Brscc Auto italia championship had to open its doors , now eurosaloons, open to German Porsche and BMW. The audi and volkswagen have vag trophy. The demand must be there for cscc run this.

Bmw racers are spoilt for choice at present. Good luck.

**Tim Falce** · 27 Nov 2010, 18:12 (Ref:2796522)

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy97

Cars from companies owned by BMW/ VAG etc such as Mini, Skoda/ SEAT/ Lambourghini are definately not in.

Shouldn't the thread title be 40 Minute races for Cars From Selected German Manufacturers? Skoda was originally German, well Austrian, wasn't it?

RF_Racer · 27 Nov 2010, 18:47 (Ref:2796532)

Wish we had longer races in Mono, atleast 25 mins would be better than 15 mins which we have at the moment. Cant see it happening though.

Al Weyman · 28 Nov 2010, 19:58 (Ref:2796875)

M3 E30 benifit? Although I see the class break would somewhat sensibly stick the M3's in Class A.

BILTEL · 28 Nov 2010, 21:48 (Ref:2796921)

Sounds really good Andy. But have to say all the money boys in E30 M3's are going to be laughing (again!). I'm sure M3s are Italian anyway. 944 turbos will shine at last and a Merc 190 16valve would be good too.

Well done mate, it'll be interesting.

andy97 · 29 Nov 2010, 07:00 (Ref:2797030)

Its always difficult trying to frame regs that are fair to all. We'll have to see what turns up but certainly on paper an E30 M3 would be the car of choice for Class A but will people with those sorts of cars be attracted to the CSCC where there's no championship on offer?

The 2 litre limit on turbos means that 944Ts will have to stay in "Future Classics" (where they have already been succesful). The 2 litre turbo limit was introduced to try to prevent lots of 911 turbos walking away with every race or someone with a big cheque book turning up with a massive Bhp twin turbo something or other! (I actually wanted the limit to be set at 2.3 litres to allow 5 pot Audi quattros & S2s in, but was outvoted!)

Personally I think that the ideal cars would be Porsche 968s and VW 1.8 turbos or a 993RS.

andy97 · 29 Nov 2010, 09:53 (Ref:2797088)

How about these as candidates for this series:

http://www.racecarsforsale.com/saloon-cars/audi-a4.html

Projects:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1994-BMW-E36-M...item4cf36b7b14

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VOLKSWAGEN-GOL...item45f71aac2c

BILTEL · 29 Nov 2010, 10:39 (Ref:2797101)

E36 M3's, 968s, 993s and Ventos, VAG 1.8 turbos are too new Andy. You did say pre 1990. So 944s2, 928, early M5, E30 M3, merc 190 cos and BMW 5/635i.

andy97 · 29 Nov 2010, 10:43 (Ref:2797103)

No, "Deutsche Marques" will be for post 1990 German cars. "Future Classics" remains the home for pre 1990 German cars and sub 2 litre N/A saloons & hatch backs remain welcome in CSCC "Tin Tops" no matter what the age.

BILTEL · 29 Nov 2010, 10:47 (Ref:2797105)

Whoops!! I've just reread your original post "Post 90". Blimey. You'll get some rapid stuff in that.

andy97 · 29 Nov 2010, 12:47 (Ref:2797143)

Regs announced here:

http://www.classicsportscarclub.co.u...EGULATIONS.pdf

Al Weyman · 29 Nov 2010, 14:27 (Ref:2797185)

Yeah they sure will, maybe not quite the E30 benifit after all!

**John Turner** · 30 Nov 2010, 11:00 (Ref:2797585)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Falce

Skoda was originally German, well Austrian, wasn't it?

Not quite, Tim. Skoda was operating from that part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire which later became Czechoslovakia after World War 1, so it would be a bit of a stretch to call it German!

Lancsbreaker · 1 Dec 2010, 10:28 (Ref:2798027)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BILTEL

Whoops!! I've just reread your original post "Post 90". Blimey. You'll get some rapid stuff in that.

Pity Motorsport News article today refers to the new series as being for PRE-90 cars......

andy97 · 1 Dec 2010, 11:20 (Ref:2798048)

Yes, a nice little piece in MN today but definately WRONG on it being Pre 1990. It is definately POST 1990 (pre 1990 cars can still enter Tin Tops & FC where appropriate).

Also the cars CAN BE MODIFIED, as with most CSCC series as long as its within the original size & shape bodyshell & has the original engine and gearbox TYPE.

andy97 · 2 Dec 2010, 09:42 (Ref:2798496)

Good piece in todays Autosport.

I wonder if I win the Lottery whether the Audi TT-RS GT4 car will be eligible for Dm?

robhollyman · 2 Dec 2010, 11:23 (Ref:2798536)

it has a 2.5L forced induction engine. so presumably it wouldn't

andy97 · 2 Dec 2010, 11:30 (Ref:2798541)

& I'll never win the lottery either!

Paul D · 2 Dec 2010, 16:48 (Ref:2798686)

Well... you just never know - it could be you!

Yeah, right!

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