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14 Dec 2015, 23:12 (Ref:3597820) | #26 | |
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Having heard nothing, I called the MSA today
After "discussions" with the FIA they now accept that they have to transfer papers from other ASNs..... BUT there is a catch. They are insisting an inspector comes out to put a new bar code on. And whilst they are with the car they will check that it is still in the spec as presented on the papers I cant decide if this is simply another MSA con and they are actually just enabling themselves to charge for another inspection or whether a check that the car hasn't been mucked about with post paper issue is a good idea. I was told this could be done at a meeting if an inspector was there Cant decide if I will bother or not |
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15 Dec 2015, 08:59 (Ref:3597897) | #27 | |||
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That said just have them stick it on at an event where an inspector is present. With the new papers they have the barcode before the papers are issued anyway. |
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15 Dec 2015, 09:44 (Ref:3597902) | #28 | |
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I've just instigated the renewal/replacement of the HTP on PEA, and thus far its been a doddle . . . despite agreeing to write off 2 weeks over Christmas, I've spoken to Jim Lowry a few times and we should be done and dusted early January.
Assuming he doesn't notice the traction control, 6 speed sequential, 6 pots calipers and 6 way adjustable titanium dampers |
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15 Dec 2015, 11:44 (Ref:3597930) | #29 | |||
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15 Dec 2015, 11:48 (Ref:3597931) | #30 | |||
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15 Dec 2015, 17:04 (Ref:3597969) | #31 | |
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I'm sure he does, as do many others, who don't post.
Occaisionally, I'd like to think some good comes from it, its generally more constructive and better informed then the 'look at me look at me' online media outlets. I will continue to speak the truth, as I see it, and if silent onlookers don't like it, who are we to care. |
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17 Dec 2015, 13:06 (Ref:3598358) | #32 | |||
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The result is cars being put together for pictures and once they have the barcode, they are just a completely different spec. In a way, the MSA through its registrars is checking that the car still complies with the papers and that validates the transfer. The cost of that inspection is to cover the registrar expenses (knowing the MSA system). Again, no system is perfect and cannot be but at least they didn't ask you to pay for a full set of papers... |
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17 Dec 2015, 13:13 (Ref:3598361) | #33 | |||
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The money that the FIA grabs, well, don't forget that ASNs have authority on this and can add whatever amount they wish to, to the FIA fee. There are no revised homologations in general. Some past practice are being corrected because they were too large at a certain time or strict regulations enforcement was not the practice by then... |
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17 Dec 2015, 13:22 (Ref:3598363) | #34 | ||
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Then there was this other car, the 1965 Grosser Preis Von Tirol Griffith, a pretty much standard car in all aspect. Therefore, both the "wild" and "standard" cars can have HTPs, after, it's all about not cherry picking a good point from the wild one and putting it to the standard one I suppose. |
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17 Dec 2015, 15:07 (Ref:3598375) | #35 | ||
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Are you using these photos as proof that cars in this guise ran in period? Was the Griffith in the photo leading the E Type in an international race?
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17 Dec 2015, 15:39 (Ref:3598382) | #36 | |||
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EHM Paul car, Brands Hatch 1965, REDEX Trophy. Other one - Grosser Preis Von Tirol, Austria, 1965. |
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17 Dec 2015, 16:00 (Ref:3598388) | #37 | |
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To my mind the hot rod one is a prototype GTP?
the std car is a production based homologated GT? The Question is, should a new build 'prototype' be allowed an HTP? if it is, as are most new builds, then its merely down to organisers whether they allow certain cars or not . . . If only owners/presenters were honest about the origins of their steeds. |
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17 Dec 2015, 17:44 (Ref:3598420) | #38 | |||
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The Redex trophy is actually questioned.. The EHM paul car is approved via a race in Aspern I believe!! Now then….. The EHM Paul car was documented to have run with rear disc brakes!!!….Funny how the FIA want to cherry pic only certain parts of history….surely the idea of HTP is to demonstrate that a particular car ran in the olden days…back in the olden days specs changed on those cars on a weekly basis.. The FIA seem to want to draw a line in the sand but they are pretty hopeless in enforcing anything…… There seem to be lots of nice cars in the TVR world getting re-built into cars that only ran in a certain point in time….Seems like a futile exercise to me and such a shame. even more silly to consider that the version of the griff which existed in largest numbers in 64-66 wasn't even homologated!!! Its purely down to greed and making money and the ability of the FIA to make lots of it to suit their own ends… If cars were inspected and scrutineered on the basis of meeting the spirit of the regs then perhaps they would have more people racing and more inclusive racing…problem is the FIA wouldn't then be able to print money on the back of supposedly providing a service!! i will stick to my little club racing exploits…The FIA can take a running jump!! N. Last edited by Heightswitch; 17 Dec 2015 at 17:51. |
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17 Dec 2015, 19:15 (Ref:3598441) | #39 | ||||
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We are also more than welcome to get your documentation and input if you have such period evidence, photos or whatever verified document about TVRs or any other car actually, I'm on here to follow what is happening and listen. |
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17 Dec 2015, 20:01 (Ref:3598445) | #40 | ||
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I fail to see how the FiA make money from individuals blowing large amounts of money building competitive cars . . . . at which point, most of them are brand new, so fewer originals get *******ised.
The Fia needs a draw a line alright . . . . allow replicas to have HTP's, or not. Quote:
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17 Dec 2015, 20:20 (Ref:3598450) | #41 | |||
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just a shame I generally am looked down upon in my little car even though it contains the most parts which actually date back to the 60's N. |
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17 Dec 2015, 20:28 (Ref:3598452) | #42 | |||
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https://racecarsdirect.com/Advert/De...fith-400-parts https://racecarsdirect.com/Advert/De...r-griffith-fia Again. no one other than FIA to blame for this situation. the HTP was always a way of allowing a replica to be built to a historic specification..The problem is that it seems the specification is being honed down to finite levels in time rather than a broad interpretation of the spirit of the regs being followed… Not too fussed. I am happy slumming it.. it would be nice to think that one day though I could race at a prestige event, even if I was last!! N. |
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17 Dec 2015, 21:18 (Ref:3598459) | #43 | ||||
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And if you look at entry list the cars were all "homologated cars" as they had to comply to Period Appendix J... For my 1965 calendar, here it is |
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17 Dec 2015, 21:37 (Ref:3598465) | #44 | ||
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17 Dec 2015, 21:53 (Ref:3598469) | #45 | |
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Only the style that was used by David Plumstead while the car was still complying with Appendix J. if there are photographs of that then absolutely it's a valid alternative. The fact that the best TVR preparer has chosen to replicate the Paul shape would suggest that this has been deemed the best choice.
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18 Dec 2015, 04:18 (Ref:3598532) | #46 | |||
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Also documented in early 65 with discs all round…I suspect however that the Fia would baulk at this.. |
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18 Dec 2015, 07:50 (Ref:3598551) | #47 | |
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At which point it would not have complied with the period Appendix J.
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18 Dec 2015, 07:58 (Ref:3598553) | #48 | ||
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18 Dec 2015, 10:06 (Ref:3598564) | #49 | |
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18 Dec 2015, 10:32 (Ref:3598569) | #50 | ||
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I have seen before an Advert for a TVR Vixen, which alerted me as an ex owner . . . it was the cars chassis and panel work, and some running gear, less paperwork & ID . Which suggested a new modern race car was being prepared with ID and the old stuff flogged off to create an identity free, but genuine car . . . .
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