2013 French HGV ECOTAX

[midgetman]

Ah! That reminds me of times when we've toured France in Peugeots and Citroens, got far more respect and warnings of speed traps from local drivers than when we used a mates Ford.

[Al Weyman]

I got stopped by Old Bill in this country years ago in my highly modified Austin Healey 3000 complete wiith blonde and they were more interested in the car and likewise let me continue and overlooked the speeding ticket, shows the different mindset between them and us!

[GORDON STREETER]

Years ago I had one of the first Honda K0 750cc motorcycles in the south east and was pulled for doing in excess of 90mph in a 30 limit.
This was at 1am with nothing else on the road and I thought "not another ban"
but surprise surprise the cop was a bike fan and wanted to have a good look at it.
He gave me a boll***ing and let me go on my merry way !!!!

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

Years ago I had one of the first Honda K1 750cc motorcycles in the south east and was pulled for doing in excess of 90mph in a 30 limit.
This was at 1am with nothing else on the road and I thought "not another ban"
but surprise surprise the cop was a bike fan and wanted to have a good look at it.
He gave me a boll***ing and let me go on my merry way !!!!

It used to be that if you were stopped for speeding on your bike by a bike cop you would be treated more fairly. Obviously if you were riding like **** you got treated accordingly!

Guess your 90 in a 30 trumps my 104 average over a distance in a 60 limit, Gordon! The nice gent was having fun following me and wrote ticket for 85. I got off with a fine.

[GORDON STREETER]

Looking back over my driving record it's not a pretty picture and nothing to be proud of. Since 1963 I've had 23 convictions for speeding and have been banned 3 times. Would anyone in their right mind let me drive their car ?

[Mike Bell]

You're all the same, you racing drivers! Did you ever get asked "Who do you think you are, Stirling Moss"

Anyway, on topic for a second. I've got all the forms to sign up for Ecotax device, discount diesel, automatic toll payment, euro VAT reclaim, fine and and breakdown payment. Think that's all. It's going to take so long to fill them in probably won't have time to actually go anywhere.....

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

Looking back over my driving record it's not a pretty picture and nothing to be proud of. Since 1963 I've had 23 convictions for speeding and have been banned 3 times. Would anyone in their right mind let me drive their car ?

You obviously didn't mix in the right circles to get off them. My worst one was 65mph in a 30 through Beckenham in a skip truck, luckily I only got done for 48mph as the BiB didn't get near me before I saw him so it was a straight FPN and not court.

[Lancsbreaker]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

I did pull the same trick with Mrs S years ago coming home from a party at 5am in Oxted Surrey, it worked then, but that's another story !

What, you got away with explaining to the Mrs your "coming home at 5am" by producing a half-naked female?


Respect!


Or maybe I mis-interpreted?

[ULCWFOTR]

I doubt if the French will make any distinction between motorhome with or without trailer , van with trailer , or the farcical private hgv if it looks over 3.5 tonne you will be required to pay or pay one of their lovely fines if you don't

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by ULCWFOTR

I doubt if the French will make any distinction between motorhome with or without trailer , van with trailer , or the farcical private hgv if it looks over 3.5 tonne you will be required to pay or pay one of their lovely fines if you don't

have you read the website?

"...Who is concerned ?
Companies owning HGV over 3,5 tons dedicated to goods transportation"

don't panic Mr Mainwaring...

[midgetman]

My understanding was that it will be enforced by ANPR cameras like the Congestion Charge, so if you've paid in advance it will be logged against your registration number. Does this mean that the French have access to the DVLA records? Is this likely to be enforced by Gendarme, or is a brown envelope likely to drop through the door with a bill in it in due course?

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by midgetman

My understanding was that it will be enforced by ANPR cameras like the Congestion Charge, so if you've paid in advance it will be logged against your registration number. Does this mean that the French have access to the DVLA records? Is this likely to be enforced by Gendarme, or is a brown envelope likely to drop through the door with a bill in it in due course?

If you ain't got the GPS device you will not be recognised by the sensors and most likely be pulled at next opportunity. I guess they will also have check points to visually observe trucks coming out of ferry ports. There will be centres to enable non conformists to purchase credit and hire device so assume they will check trucks at those points as well. I don't think they will be able to electronically record your reg and retrospectively fine you, but don't quote me on that!!!!

If you have the device, which hopefully I will have in time even if the French aren't ready, you will have had to open an account with someone like AS24 who do Fuel Card, auto toll payment, VAT reclaims etc. It will just be a case of the device working with the sensors and customer getting invoiced like normal toll collection.

And is only for HGVs !!

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

And is only for HGVs !!

Well not just HGVs, 3.5 tonne is big Sprinter + trailer territory isn't it? And the majority of "racing" box vans are under 7.5t so not classed as LGVs. If you're claiming your van is a motorhome, best get plenty of windows cut into it

I'd forgotten about the moneyed-up device that you're putting in. I hope you get a nice big sticker saying "Je suis legal, go away gendarmes".

[SAMD]

I would maybe be inclined to chance it. They have the system in Dublin on the M50 and I have only paid a few times. I was told the system is set to chase payments only when it is worthwhile. ie; once the tolls and fines were over a certain amount - say, £150 worth, the system registered you and started chasing you for payment. So very few shopfitting people paid that I knew of. I was eventually chased for payment, which I paid. But the fines were quite punitive if I remember correctly. So, like most things in life, it is up to you.

[MGDavid]

Max - I refer you to what I quoted in post #60: from the website:

"...Who is concerned ?
Companies owning HGV over 3,5 tons dedicated to goods transportation"

clearly this is not (yet) aimed at tourists and holidaymakers driving their abode pulling a toy behind.

[Robert Farrell]

This is not intended as advice or guidance in any way.
I am lead to believe by those who know about these things that, initially the EcoTaxe will apply to all vehicles subject to drivers hours regulations(Tachograph)

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by SAMD

I would maybe be inclined to chance it. They have the system in Dublin on the M50 and I have only paid a few times. I was told the system is set to chase payments only when it is worthwhile. ie; once the tolls and fines were over a certain amount - say, £150 worth, the system registered you and started chasing you for payment. So very few shopfitting people paid that I knew of. I was eventually chased for payment, which I paid. But the fines were quite punitive if I remember correctly. So, like most things in life, it is up to you.

Sam, they will do you just for not having the device. Fine 750 clicks from memory.

Thanks Robert for your input!

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

Max - I refer you to what I quoted in post #60: from the website:

"...Who is concerned ?
Companies owning HGV over 3,5 tons dedicated to goods transportation"

clearly this is not (yet) aimed at tourists and holidaymakers driving their abode pulling a toy behind.

Yes I know that, I can read too. But there are a lot of people commercially running racing cars who could fall foul. Why does it worry me? Well I was going to take the (7.5t) Racers' Edge truck to Spa to run a customer in one of our cars.

Tim posted a useful link to driving regulations for horseboxes on another thread, and my use of truck with car would be classified "commercial" in the UK (unlike yours), so as we're all one under the Blessed Union these days presumably it's the same in France too.

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by midgetman

..... Well I was going to take the (7.5t) Racers' Edge truck to Spa to run a customer in one of our cars..........

well that's simple - you sort it and the customer pays :-)

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

well that's simple - you sort it and the customer pays :-)

The customer always pays.

If what Robert has heard is correct anything with a tacho fitted could be targeted, and the words 'dedicated to goods transportation' then become a grey area! 7.5 tonne 'motorhome', Sprinter with Dastle...........

[Colin McKay]

Without going into all the detail of 750kg trailers and similar exemptions because I doubt they would apply to most of us, idiot's guide to definition of HGV/LGV etc etc herewith (note: watch the abbreviations, LGV does not mean light goods vehicle, it means large goods vehicle ie HGV):

Is the vehicle a motorhome? Yes = no probs. No = keep reading...

Is the vehicle combination (incl any trailer) over 3500kgs permitted max weight (regardless of actual weight)? If no, you're in the clear.

Is there any commercial involvement in the operation? What about sponsorship? If yes, then you are carrying goods and are subject to 'O' licence & tacho rules, and loads of other s**t including French ecotax. If no, it must be a purely private operation (whose name is on the V5C?) to be exempt unless you are a fire engine, heavy locomotive, lawn mower or steam propelled milk float and so on. And on.

The rules are immensely complicated but this might help flag up if you need to look into it further, in which case take a day out and go to

https://www.gov.uk/being-a-goods-vehicle-operator

then take another day out and go to

https://www.gov.uk/tachographs

then find a darkened room.

E&OE

[Mike Bell]

What always amuses me is when I look at Pro Race team transporters- and I am talking modern International single seater stuff, not old farts racing- is that most are running with private HGV tax discs! Not an O licence is sight......

[Colin McKay]

A weekend in the paddock would be a Vosa man's dream......

[Colin McKay]

Then we move onto the subject of French Ecotax proper. By kind permission of every motorist's friend, the Road Haulage Association, this is the latest:

FRANCE - GUIDE TO FRENCH TRUCK TAXES (ECOTAX)

We have just received a copy (so far in French only) of a booklet detailing known procedures with the so-called ECOTAX.
The link is at:
http://asp.zone-secure.net/v2/index.jsp?id=2186/2792/28688&lng=fr

Latest details of the tax provided in English are available from:
http://www.ecomouv.com/en/

Please note we still await full details of the relevant Government decree.

And finally (but probably not) the breathalyser saga:

FRANCE – BREATHALYSER KITS – ANOTHER POSTPONEMENT

Notification just received from FNTR the French Association advises that the Minister of the Interior declared yesterday that the obligation to carry breathalyser kits on board vehicles has been postponed until further notice (‘Sine Die’). However, the Minister will make a decision, most likely in February, as to whether to go ahead with the requirement, following receipt of conclusions from a report produced by the working group on ‘drink drive’ organised by the National Road Security Council.

Initially postponed because of "problems with supply" (we've got a cupboard full of the things) I'd put money on it never happening.

Tant pis

[morninggents]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

You're all the same, you racing drivers! Did you ever get asked "Who do you think you are, Stirling Moss

No, but I once got stopped in Kent and the cop said 'who do you think you are? Gordon Streeter!'