Motorsport and the Coronavirus

[abw]

"There will be a number of caveats of granting event permits, including that event organisers commit that their events will be held behind closed doors..."


Is that specific to July? Or does that apply to any permits regardless of date?

[S griffin]

I think for club events they are doing that so they can run events with the minimum of problems and as they are not major series there’s no need for a big crowd anyway. They will probably evaluate it in July, then see what happens after that

[Moneyseeker]

I don't think mass gatherings will be allowed this year, some of the modelling they have done showed the infections were spread at public events in March.

No one is going to run the risk of a large or even relatively small public event.

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[midgetman]

Originally Posted by andy97

I dont think so. Istr it saying that pit stops shoulld be extended by c30sec to allow contact areas to be sanitised.



Eta, just checked the guidance issued on 18 May:

DRIVER CHANGES:

• For events requiring driver changes the time period for the change must allow for sanitisation of the contact areas within the vehicle. (+30 seconds)

• Shared use of an internal breather and hydration system is prohibited

Thanks for clearing that up. I didn't have the link to hand.

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[Paul D]

So... hypothetically, what happens if we tentatively turn up to our first venture out into the new world at a race meeting, and not enough marshals show up meaning that the event cannot be run safely?

Do we get a refund of entry fees? Whose responsibility is it to ensure there are enough marshals to provide the necessary cover? I'm guessing that falls on the organising club and not the circuit owners?

Do clubs have an idea before an event just how many marshals are likely to show up, or do they just hope they'll have enough on the day?

I remember a couple of years ago at Donington we were scheduled to race on the Grand Prix circuit, but on the day there were insufficient marshals so we only got to race on the shorter national layout, which was somewhat disappointing - but at least we still got to race. But if there weren't even enough marshals to cover the national layout, then I assume the event would have been cancelled - which doesn't bear thinking about. It seems the chances of such an occurrence now are higher than ever before?

[midgetman]

It's a problem which you can only completely resolve by not entering. Then you're guaranteed not to lose your money if something untoward happens.

My take on it is the same as the money I haven't got back yet on the Monaco Classic trip that was cancelled. It's disposable income, I've disposed of it. If I don't attend/race then I get lousy value for money but that's the way it is. If I get the money back then woohoo. These are extraordinary times and we know there's a risk the event may not go ahead so it's a risk to take.

Equally it could be that your car breaks terminally on the out lap of first practice so you get equally lousy value and no chance of getting your money back.



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[redshoes]

Originally Posted by Paul D

So... hypothetically, what happens if we tentatively turn up to our first venture out into the new world at a race meeting, and not enough marshals show up meaning that the event cannot be run safely?

Do we get a refund of entry fees? Whose responsibility is it to ensure there are enough marshals to provide the necessary cover? I'm guessing that falls on the organising club and not the circuit owners?

Surely what happens is no different to what happened before. Circuit owners just rent the facility, it's up to the organising club to make sure they have sufficient marshals/medical/officials/etc to run the meeting.

Marshals will have volunteered/registered in advance so clubs will have a rough idea of numbers, but those can and will change.

You mention Donington a few years ago where they had to switch from GP to National due to lack of numbers. I seem to recall the same years there was a meeting at Croft (?) that was abandoned for the same reason.

[andy97]

Originally Posted by Paul D

So... hypothetically, what happens if we tentatively turn up to our first venture out into the new world at a race meeting, and not enough marshals show up meaning that the event cannot be run safely?

Do we get a refund of entry fees? Whose responsibility is it to ensure there are enough marshals to provide the necessary cover? I'm guessing that falls on the organising club and not the circuit owners?

Do clubs have an idea before an event just how many marshals are likely to show up, or do they just hope they'll have enough on the day?

I remember a couple of years ago at Donington we were scheduled to race on the Grand Prix circuit, but on the day there were insufficient marshals so we only got to race on the shorter national layout, which was somewhat disappointing - but at least we still got to race. But if there weren't even enough marshals to cover the national layout, then I assume the event would have been cancelled - which doesn't bear thinking about. It seems the chances of such an occurrence now are higher than ever before?

I do not know what the detail arrangements are for assuring sufficient numbers of officials / marshals for meetings but i assume that volunteers sign up for events x weeks before the event to allow planning to take place. I know that CSCC has a marshals co-ordinator who will organise that side if things.
Of course there may always be a few no shows but in general i would be astonished if i turned up to a CSCC meeting to find it was cancelled on the day due to lack of marshals. If the club know a few days ahead of time that marshal numbers are an issue i would expect them to cancel before we travelled!
In the case of Donington a couple of years ago, the club knew a few days in advance that marshals were tight so had a contingency plan to use the smaller circuit. The marshal numbers were ok on the Sunday and we raced on the GP circuit. Of course, not many circuits have that option.
CSCC generally have very good marshal numbers because the club treats the marshals well (an ocassionsl bbq or goody bag for eg) and provides good grids.
Maybe an official/ marshal can help out here?

[The Fat Clerk]

The MUK Steward on the day will use page 115 of the Blue Book:

Marshals
12.1.An adequate number of competent Marshals must be on duty throughout any event, allocated to locations and duties appropriate to their individual experience and training.

Now what you call an adequate number and what I call, will not be the same, will they?

In the recent race guidelines from MUK for the current situation it says:

PADDOCK & SERVICE/ASSEMBLY AREA • Prepare or use any marked bays and grids to avoid marshals where possible POSTS • A maximum 2 marshals per post, 1 in Marshals Box (Post Chief) + 1 marshal – lights or flags if acceptable, outside. • Post allocation to be issued remotely prior to event to avoid unnecessary delays and gatherings • Start Line Information Board / Light Panel to reduce marshals needed

[S griffin]

Hopefully they will have enough to make the racing go ahead. We'll have to see come the weekend of July

[Mike_Powell]

I can only speak for myself, but I put my availability forms in as soon as I can, January or February, so I know what what days to mark off in my diary.
There have been times when I know I can't make an event so I'll let either. the organising club or chief marshal know that I wont be attending.
CSCC events are popular with us marshals as we are made to feel welcome by all club members - offers of coffee are freely made, competitors are happy to talk to us in the paddock and most drivers always acknowledge us on the slowing down lap. It's these little things that go a long way.

[zefarelly]

Originally Posted by Mike_Powell

I can only speak for myself, but I put my availability forms in as soon as I can, January or February, so I know what what days to mark off in my diary.
There have been times when I know I can't make an event so I'll let either. the organising club or chief marshal know that I wont be attending.
CSCC events are popular with us marshals as we are made to feel welcome by all club members - offers of coffee are freely made, competitors are happy to talk to us in the paddock and most drivers always acknowledge us on the slowing down lap. It's these little things that go a long way.

Applauding the marshalls is the very least any competitor can do. we're not allowed out to play if you don't turn up, its also an excuse to do no handed

[Gerard C]

Agreed about the marshals from any country. Bravos et mercis from a driver yesterday involved in marshaling.
Our traditional March shake down day at Dijon is announced on the 6 June, no single seaters allowed for safety reasons, all health precautions will apply of course. One "detail" at the moment, many of us are not allowed to travel more than 100 kilometers away from home.

[Paul D]

Originally Posted by midgetman

It's a problem which you can only completely resolve by not entering. Then you're guaranteed not to lose your money if something untoward happens.

My take on it is the same as the money I haven't got back yet on the Monaco Classic trip that was cancelled. It's disposable income, I've disposed of it. If I don't attend/race then I get lousy value for money but that's the way it is. If I get the money back then woohoo. These are extraordinary times and we know there's a risk the event may not go ahead so it's a risk to take.

Equally it could be that your car breaks terminally on the out lap of first practice so you get equally lousy value and no chance of getting your money back.



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Max - it sounds like you think I was complaining about the situation, so I should clarify: I'm definitely not complaining, just posing the question.

I accept there's always a risk to entering any race meeting. As you said, the car could pack up before you've even done a lap, and there's no recourse in that situation.

I was really just more interested to know what the protocols are in such circumstances. I'm more than happy to accept the risks, and as soon as suitable meetings are running again, I'll be willing to enter and take my chances. As well as wanting to get out for some racing, I think we need to support the clubs too, as the general consensus is that numbers (of entrants) are likely to be down for some time, so if some of us don't get back out there, there may well be no 'back out there' to get to later on!

I race with the CSCC, and as has already been said, we generally don't have a problem attracting sufficient marshals so hopefully it won't be a problem. Our club seem to treat marshals well, which is only as it ought to be of course. On a personal note, I always go out of my way to wave at every marshals' post on the slowing down lap, as well as those controlling the pit-lane, paddock, etc.

[kipper]

Originally Posted by andy97

I assume that volunteers sign up for events x weeks before the event to allow planning to take place.

In theory, yes. However, pretty much all clubs (with the exception of F1, BTCC and the Goodwoods) will let a marshal volunterler up until the morning of the event simply because if they put a cut off point earlier they would deter anyone who has late availability. It is very rare for an event to have too many marshals volunteer.

My experience is that most clubs will not cancel a meeting in advance - instead they'll take a chance that enough people will turn up on the day, with people being given unexpected duties and some posts being left unmanned in order to fulfill the Motorsports UK requirements. This will also be supplemented by begging phone calls/emails to known marshals in order to encourage a few more out.

The above is an increasingly common scenario. I'd estimate that last year I received communications from most clubs in the days leading up to an event on average once a week as they tried to get enough people together to meet the minimim requirements.

[The Fat Clerk]

20 or so years ago I was Clerking a 750MC meeting at Cadwell and we were short of Marshals, a paddock tannoy announcement produced a dozen or so volunteers who were paired up with experienced Marshals and the day went ahead safely. I know that at least one of those people enjoyed it so much that they later became a Marshal.

Have to say that some circuits do bring it on themselves, for example Silverstone often runs 2 meetings on the same days over a weekend using the National & International circuits and then send out 'help' emails.

[Gerard C]

The 100 kilometers travel limit around home is cancelled. More info to come on 11 June. Important for the French, reopening of the restaurants and bistrots… International travels might be allowed from 15 June depending on the Union decisions.

[GCCheddaris]

Not sure if it would work regarding motor racing but a few years ago when my brother was motocrossing, one stipulation on the entry form was that riders would be balloted to provide a marshall. No marshall = no ride if you were balloted.

[John Elwin]

Originally Posted by Gerard C

The 100 kilometers travel limit around home is cancelled. More info to come on 11 June. Important for the French, reopening of the restaurants and bistrots… International travels might be allowed from 15 June depending on the Union decisions.

The bars & restaurants can re-open - Arras will be buzzing on Tuesday night!!

Will the EU still exist on 15 June???

[Gerard C]

John if its useless, costs loads of money, looks stupid and lead to a great confusion,then yes it will last for sure!

[Gerard C]

Never forget that when it comes to politics there's always a back thought if not several. Say to the French "OK, the bar is open now" and you'll have a big Yeepee no-one thinking about elections. If the bistrots are open, then the poll station can be re-opened too. See what I mean?

[Lancsbreaker]

CSCC have just put out an email to marshals and officials (which I get because I've done Safety Car a few times) advising that they are going ahead with prep for Thruxton which is 25/26 July:


"There will be many changes from the norm, to allow you to participate and enjoy the racing with us, but with as many health and safety measures as is practically possible. More details will follow, but distancing, face masks and hand sanitiser (provided by the CSCC) and more 'should' make it less likely you'd catch the virus compared to visiting your local Supermarket. A lot of thought and planning has gone into every aspect and every role at a race meeting.
Potential points of human contact such as in race control, timekeeping, driver interviews, briefings, recovery, Marshals posts, catering, toilets and more will all have sensible, practical changes. What won't change is the CSCC's quality, varied grids and friendly atmosphere.

We will be in touch again with more information as we get closer to the event, but with two months to go there are certain to be more changes, with accommodation/camping being made clearer by the government from early July.
The CSCC office team remains furloughed for now, with the aim for them to be back in the office some weeks before the event. If you have not done so already and would like to volunteer to help us at this or any other remaining CSCC meeting you are welcome to email info@classicsportscarclub.co.uk, the team will happily allocate you a role when they return in July."


One thing that will help (presuming CSCC are one of the 50% of clubs who get lucky with being able to run) will be for competitors to pick up the initiative which was already being tried whereby if a competitor volunteers to assist in admin or marshalling they get the reward of use of a garage at a future meeting. I'd already volunteered to do this at our Cadwell meeting on the day we weren't racing - but of course the meeting was cancelled. I'm certainly prepared to do this - the few times I have marshalled have been interesting experiences. I wasn't originally intending to do Thruxton - its a fair haul, but I was actually been checking out the Andover Premier Inn availability yesterday with a thought to marshalling and racing

[midgetman]

If you do stay down Lancs, we could meet up for a socially-distanced pint. I'm only 45 minutes from there.

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[The Fat Clerk]

If Novice Drivers do a days Mashalling they can get one of their six upgrade signatures, and probably learn a lot too.

Blue Book page 134:

H14.2.2
(ii) One of the Clerk of the Course signatures required for having successfully completed a Race may be replaced by a Clerk of the Course signature recorded on the Upgrade Card for completing a day on a marshal’s post during a race meeting.

[Mike_Powell]

Originally Posted by kipper

I'd estimate that last year I received communications from most clubs in the days leading up to an event on average once a week as they tried to get enough people together to meet the minimim requirements.

My record for last year was 5 emails in one week.......