[Official] United States Grand Prix

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

Yes they werent complying by the end of the race.... but they probably were at the beginning....
And they only looked at 4 of the finishers.... not the other 13 finishers, nor the cars that were elevated into the points after the DQ's.

How do you check for plank wear before a race?

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

Yes they werent complying by the end of the race.... but they probably were at the beginning....
And they only looked at 4 of the finishers.... not the other 13 finishers, nor the cars that were elevated into the points after the DQ's.

I'm not arguing with your point because if the car doesn't comply the reward is a DQ, but surely if we're to be fair all the cars should be checked in the same way.
They aren't, for entirely pragmatic reasons, but that does bring into question the whole process of measuring the cars after the event.

It does seem strange to me that where one car in a team is found to be non-compliant, they don't then insist on testing the other car in the team. Who knows what the outcome might have been if they'd tested the entire field - 50% of those tested were non-compliant - I'd have a fiver on there being others in the rest of the field that weren't tested.

[Mike Harte]

This scrutineering issue made me check the sporting regulations issued by the FIA because I have always assumed that all cars were checked by the FIA. How wrong I was!

According to the regs, teams have to self certify their cars 4 hours prior to FP1 , and the FIA retain the right to check any car at any time over the weekend and will check some cars after the race.

Knowing how all the teams like to interpret their understand of the regulations, it amazes me how lackadaisical the whole thing is!

[Aysedasi]

Agreed. I had made the same assumption about all cars being checked.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

And now possible DQ penalties for Leclerc and Hamilton for skid plate wear

https://racer.com/2023/10/22/hamilto...er-plank-wear/

Imagine the screaming and yelling if it had been a Redbull....

[S griffin]

Apparently the last time a car got DQed for this type of technical infringement was Panis at the 94 Portuguese GP. Although Trulli also fell foul of this at 2001 US GP, but was reinstated on appeal. Funny how it’s taken this long for this to happen again and with not just one, but two cars

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

Imagine the screaming and yelling if it had been a Redbull....

Any different than the comments because it was those 2?? Doubt it

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Any different than the comments because it was those 2?? Doubt it

Yep I doubt it too. Doesn't matter if it was Merc, Ferrari or RB. All have just as many detractors as they do die hard supporters!

[Skam85]

Better reinstate Ben Johnson's Olympic medals, we don't want results decided off track.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

Yes they werent complying by the end of the race.... but they probably were at the beginning....
And they only looked at 4 of the finishers.... not the other 13 finishers, nor the cars that were elevated into the points after the DQ's.

I'm not arguing with your point because if the car doesn't comply the reward is a DQ, but surely if we're to be fair all the cars should be checked in the same way.
They aren't, for entirely pragmatic reasons, but that does bring into question the whole process of measuring the cars after the event.

I made this comment because in karting if there were DQ's then the next engines in line were checked to make sure they too complied.

But this doesn't happen in F1 because the teams have already removed those cars, not in park ferme, and started tearing everything down to pack up for transportation to the next event.
Which is why I had questions about the whole process.

[Aysedasi]

Dip-sampling is all well and good until you find something amiss - even more so if you find two separate cars breaching the rule. If you don't have the ability then to sample more, you have a problem.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Dip-sampling is all well and good until you find something amiss - even more so if you find two separate cars breaching the rule. If you don't have the ability then to sample more, you have a problem.

I would hope that this might have blown the cobwebs from the FIA's eyes, and that they now scrutinise more cars after the races. Somehow I doubt it though!

[Gerard C]

All teams must be prepared to have a check during the opening times of the meeting, its in the rules, cars must remain available on demand of the scrutineering team without any explaination or prior notice. Cars must remain compliant all time during the race weekend and inspection will end after the mandatory delay of the parc fermé. Unless a deep check is requested (as was the case at LM).

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Agreed. I had made the same assumption about all cars being checked.

I was under the impression all cars were checked in parc ferme post race, but the winner and three random selections are given a lengthy more fully encompassing and thorough check(at Austin the random selections being Norris Leclerc and Hamilton.)

I believe the reasoning for only checking the winner and three 'randoms' is one of time constraints and the wish / need to have more speedy confirmed results for the media and news broadcasts.

I guess the alternative, by giving all cars the full gambit, is we would have to get used to results the next morning (dependant on time zones, but certainly for us in the Eastern end of the globe.) Regardless a lengthy delay for all.

[Mike Harte]

Chris, they could actually examine every car simultaneously if they so wished , I believe. At every GP, the FIA places a FIA observer in each garage to monitor what the teams are up to, which is how the Race Director knows if a team exceeds the allotted working hours, etc.

All the FIA needs to do is to train all these observers in what and how to check on all the cars as soon as they return to the garages. It wouldn't need to be a full on scrutiny of all the cars, but just certain easily monitored items such as ride height, wear on the skid plank and so on. The FIA could then carry out the full checks that they currently do on random cars plus the winner.

It's not rocket science!

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

How do you check for plank wear before a race?

Have a look at it after practice to see if there was anything worn as a result of the set up during that time.
Mercedes did this but then set up the car lower for the races....
They have actually said that.

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Chris, they could actually examine every car simultaneously if they so wished , I believe. At every GP, the FIA places a FIA observer in each garage to monitor what the teams are up to, which is how the Race Director knows if a team exceeds the allotted working hours, etc.

All the FIA needs to do is to train all these observers in what and how to check on all the cars as soon as they return to the garages. It wouldn't need to be a full on scrutiny of all the cars, but just certain easily monitored items such as ride height, wear on the skid plank and so on. The FIA could then carry out the full checks that they currently do on random cars plus the winner.

It's not rocket science!

It's a good point. There's no reason why they can't check every car. It would cause less controversy if they did. Seems to be luck of the draw if your car is checked atm

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by S griffin

It's a good point. There's no reason why they can't check every car. It would cause less controversy if they did. Seems to be luck of the draw if your car is checked atm

If they checked every car fully it would take more than a day.

If they had 20 full sets of equipment they need all of the pit garages as well as another jumbo.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by peebee2

If they checked every car fully it would take more than a day.

If they had 20 full sets of equipment they need all of the pit garages as well as another jumbo.

I don't think anyone is saying fully, we're largely just addressing the plank issue. Saying 'It's too hard' isn't really good enough.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I don't think anyone is saying fully, we're largely just addressing the plank issue. Saying 'It's too hard' isn't really good enough.

Understood, but can you selectively choose some items for scrutiny but not others?

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Understood, but can you selectively choose some items for scrutiny but not others?

Yes.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Yes.

Which is what they do now...

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Which is what they do now...

Then, for what possible reason, did you pose the question if you, supposedly, already knew the answer?

[E.B]

Originally Posted by peebee2

If they checked every car fully it would take more than a day.

If they had 20 full sets of equipment they need all of the pit garages as well as another jumbo.

And in the case of Austin, the teams have to have the cars and garages broken down and packed into containers ready to be freighted off to Mexico in good time to be all set up, cars repaired and race prepped by Wednesday night ready for official business, (presume Scrutineering) etc on Thursday for Friday on track.

Edit: I just found an article by DHL, the official carriers, talking of in recent years (in this case Mexico was the week prior to Austin) they have 37 hours from race end to have all equipment through Mexican and US customs and at the next venue. They also have airport curfews to work around.
First trucks leave 4am Monday and the final one has to be on the road midday Monday. Certainly for back to back weekends going through all cars thoroughly post race would create a logistical night mare if not impossible.

Interesting article: https://inmotion.dhl/en/formula-1/ar...in-record-time

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by peebee2

If they checked every car fully it would take more than a day.

If they had 20 full sets of equipment they need all of the pit garages as well as another jumbo.

This makes complete sense. Especially as some of the checks are very explicit around how they are done with respect to procedure and no doubt the instruments used. This article showed up today and somewhat says similar things...

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f...-car/10537926/

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Chris, they could actually examine every car simultaneously if they so wished , I believe. At every GP, the FIA places a FIA observer in each garage to monitor what the teams are up to, which is how the Race Director knows if a team exceeds the allotted working hours, etc.

All the FIA needs to do is to train all these observers in what and how to check on all the cars as soon as they return to the garages. It wouldn't need to be a full on scrutiny of all the cars, but just certain easily monitored items such as ride height, wear on the skid plank and so on. The FIA could then carry out the full checks that they currently do on random cars plus the winner.

It's not rocket science!

I suspect that is putting to much on a single FIA observer to monitor. I broadly assume they are dealing with higher level monitoring and things like "like for like" exchange during red flags, etc. I think it's unrealistic for them to be trying to watch for things like plank wear.

But I think the spirit of your comment may be true in that they might feed information up the chain as to driving the potential for selective inspections. Did I read somewhere that this inspect was triggered by a suspicion of high plank wear? That they didn't just randomly pick those cars and randomly check plank thickness?

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

This scrutineering issue made me check the sporting regulations issued by the FIA because I have always assumed that all cars were checked by the FIA. How wrong I was!

According to the regs, teams have to self certify their cars 4 hours prior to FP1 , and the FIA retain the right to check any car at any time over the weekend and will check some cars after the race.

Knowing how all the teams like to interpret their understand of the regulations, it amazes me how lackadaisical the whole thing is!

Originally Posted by E.B

And in the case of Austin, the teams have to have the cars and garages broken down and packed into containers ready to be freighted off to Mexico in good time to be all set up, cars repaired and race prepped by Wednesday night ready for official business, (presume Scrutineering) etc on Thursday for Friday on track.

And is not all of this a bit of a reflection of the pace of such a large and compressed schedule? If there was not such a rush to pack up, might more cars have been available for inspecting deeper into the field? In the end, corners must be cut somewhere to make it all work. So if teams are self certifying and you only perform random sample inspections, then apparently governance is one of them. This is actually a scientific question. Is this self certification and random sampling working? I suspect they don't have the data to show one way or the other.

[Edit... one last comment. As to performing some inspections and not others. We clearly see them pull cars out for checks on the weighbridge during the weekend and also weigh the podium drivers (and I assume podium cars) at the end of the race. So I think they do try to check things over the course of the weekend such as car and driver weight as being underweight can have such a big impact and also because those are easy checks to perform]

Richard