Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Saloon & Sportscar Racing > Australasian Touring Cars.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11 Oct 2016, 01:00 (Ref:3679107)   #76
chavez
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Australia
The Basin, Victoria
Posts: 2,829
chavez should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchavez should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchavez should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by peckstar View Post
Im fully aware of why out of touch people call it an entertainment car

Its because of a belief that it is called out to create entertainment when a race may have got slow or to produce a close finish.

However We did not see that happen on the weekend when there was an ideal opportunity with debris in the chase.

Thus i stand by my comment that people who use that term "entertainment car" are probably a bit out of touch with the series or crotchety old men.
Please read post #63 and tell me why I am out of touch?
chavez is online now  
__________________
"Your biggest auto race may one day become a Camaro playground", Chris Economaki, Bathurst 1979
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2016, 01:02 (Ref:3679109)   #77
peckstar
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2004
Cayman Islands
Posts: 16,040
peckstar has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Quote:
Originally Posted by chavez View Post
Please read post #63 and tell me why I am out of touch?
I already have.

however to be clear. Races that finish under local yellows is not about entertainment, Its about racing. Which is what the competitors are there to do. The entertainment is a side issue to racing
peckstar is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2016, 01:11 (Ref:3679112)   #78
chavez
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Australia
The Basin, Victoria
Posts: 2,829
chavez should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchavez should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchavez should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by peckstar View Post
I already have.
We saw a safety car for when Rick Kelly hit the wall at Forrest's Elbow.

The safety car boards were displayed post haste without any reasonable time for the use of waved double yellow flags to allow Rick to get out of the wall under his own steam.

When then saw a car left in perhaps the most dangerous and exposed position in any race track in Australia because deploying the Safety Car would have most likely seen the race finish behind the Safety Car.
chavez is online now  
__________________
"Your biggest auto race may one day become a Camaro playground", Chris Economaki, Bathurst 1979
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2016, 01:20 (Ref:3679114)   #79
peckstar
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2004
Cayman Islands
Posts: 16,040
peckstar has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Quote:
Originally Posted by chavez View Post
We saw a safety car for when Rick Kelly hit the wall at Forrest's Elbow.

The safety car boards were displayed post haste without any reasonable time for the use of waved double yellow flags to allow Rick to get out of the wall under his own steam.

When then saw a car left in perhaps the most dangerous and exposed position in any race track in Australia because deploying the Safety Car would have most likely seen the race finish behind the Safety Car.

sorry, your point there? Not sure how it relates to safety car, are you suggesting that rick Kelly incident safety car was for entertainment?

But i agree they went quickly on that one, but hardly entertainment
peckstar is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2016, 01:30 (Ref:3679120)   #80
D.R.T.
Veteran
 
D.R.T.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location:
Sydeny
Posts: 8,963
D.R.T. should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridD.R.T. should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
The concern I have with the car in the sand at the chase is that no cars reduced their speed through the double waved yellow.
D.R.T. is offline  
__________________
Upon entry into the Bathurst 1000, it should be mandatory to view the compelling "Moffat - Man and the Mountain" film
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2016, 01:37 (Ref:3679126)   #81
Mixer
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location:
Surry Hills, NSW
Posts: 6,607
Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.R.T. View Post
The concern I have with the car in the sand at the chase is that no cars reduced their speed through the double waved yellow.
Agreed - but this also seems to be the case in F1 and other series having similar occurances.
Mixer is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2016, 02:25 (Ref:3679139)   #82
peckstar
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2004
Cayman Islands
Posts: 16,040
peckstar has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.R.T. View Post
The concern I have with the car in the sand at the chase is that no cars reduced their speed through the double waved yellow.
Davisons lap times showed slower laps in the last sector for the last two laps as did SVG

Now whincup on the other hand
peckstar is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2016, 03:06 (Ref:3679155)   #83
Compromised
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 848
Compromised should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixer View Post
Because the race was safely managed under double waved yellows, as MANY classes around the world would do in the last 2 laps of a race.
So we've learnt nothing from losing Jules bianchi then?

Yeah this race finished safely...this time. What if someone had brake failure? What if anything really? Is it worth risking it for a race finish? Why not just run NASCAR green white chequers in that situation?
Compromised is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2016, 03:11 (Ref:3679161)   #84
Mixer
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location:
Surry Hills, NSW
Posts: 6,607
Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Compromised View Post
So we've learnt nothing from losing Jules bianchi then?
Bianchi was a bit of a special case, wet conditions, recovery vehicle on track, open cockpit, individual not driving to the conditions.

You can't really single out Supercars for this when this type of practice is quite common in many series around the world.
Mixer is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2016, 03:21 (Ref:3679164)   #85
Reload
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Australia
Posts: 3,330
Reload should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridReload should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixer View Post
Bianchi was a bit of a special case, wet conditions, recovery vehicle on track, open cockpit, individual not driving to the conditions.

You can't really single out Supercars for this when this type of practice is quite common in many series around the world.
Detonating an engine at 300 kph and losing control on its fluids could have been ugly.
Reload is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2016, 03:23 (Ref:3679166)   #86
peckstar
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2004
Cayman Islands
Posts: 16,040
peckstar has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Compromised View Post
So we've learnt nothing from losing Jules bianchi then?

Yeah this race finished safely...this time. What if someone had brake failure? What if anything really? Is it worth risking it for a race finish? Why not just run NASCAR green white chequers in that situation?
Really Bianchi? thats what you have? Supercars are so far ahead of F1 when it comes to safety if that's your argument. We call a SC for every time a support vehicle goes on the track

As for green white, why? we can do local yellows. Cant do that in NASCAR

We managed to run multiple support categories on the weekend using local yellows with often amatuer drivers
peckstar is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2016, 04:21 (Ref:3679182)   #87
Alan52
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Australia
Glenmore Park
Posts: 1,634
Alan52 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridAlan52 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
The technology now exists to do Code 60 or Virtual Safety Car.The introduction of a Safety Car can change a race from a sporting contest to a raffle.It is like resetting the score at 0-0 in a football match when a player goes off injured.At one time it was necessary for safety compared to sending trucks out to pick up cars while the race continued at full speed.F1 and WEC have moved away from Safety Cars and it is time for Supercars to do the same.
Alan52 is online now  
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2016, 04:26 (Ref:3679186)   #88
Mixer
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location:
Surry Hills, NSW
Posts: 6,607
Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan52 View Post
The technology now exists to do Code 60 or Virtual Safety Car.The introduction of a Safety Car can change a race from a sporting contest to a raffle.It is like resetting the score at 0-0 in a football match when a player goes off injured.At one time it was necessary for safety compared to sending trucks out to pick up cars while the race continued at full speed.F1 and WEC have moved away from Safety Cars and it is time for Supercars to do the same.
Off you go then - go buy all the gear necessary and provide to Supercars as a profitable aside.

I think the last time this got all discussed you needed between $300k-$500k to do it.

I've been a supplier to them in the past - have fun
Mixer is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2016, 05:26 (Ref:3679206)   #89
Compromised
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 848
Compromised should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by peckstar View Post
Really Bianchi? thats what you have? Supercars are so far ahead of F1 when it comes to safety if that's your argument. We call a SC for every time a support vehicle goes on the track

As for green white, why? we can do local yellows. Cant do that in NASCAR
IMO throwing out yellows isn't ideal as you lose a overtaking opportunity. Green white at least let's you race the whole track green.

And as for Supercars being safer than f1, not sure on that. You say every time a support vehicle is on track Supercars call a SC. Why not when marshalls run on the track?

Also the support vehicle was not on track when bianchi hit it, it was in a run off zone, similar to where Todds Nissan was parked....you getting where this is going?
Compromised is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2016, 05:42 (Ref:3679213)   #90
Mixer
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location:
Surry Hills, NSW
Posts: 6,607
Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Compromised View Post
Also the support vehicle was not on track when bianchi hit it, it was in a run off zone, similar to where Todds Nissan was parked....you getting where this is going?
Repeating it doesn't change it from an apples to oranges comparison.
Mixer is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2016, 05:43 (Ref:3679214)   #91
275 GTB-4
Veteran
 
275 GTB-4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Australia
South of Sydney NSW, Australie
Posts: 3,499
275 GTB-4 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid275 GTB-4 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Compromised View Post
And as for Supercars being safer than f1, not sure on that. You say every time a support vehicle is on track Supercars call a SC. Why not when marshalls run on the track?
I will bet my left agate that the Marshal either asked for permission first or was directed by Race Control onto the track and would have been "covered" by a local Yella
275 GTB-4 is offline  
__________________
The good old days sure seem like a long time ago!!
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2016, 05:49 (Ref:3679215)   #92
Mixer
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location:
Surry Hills, NSW
Posts: 6,607
Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by 275 GTB-4 View Post
I will bet my left agate that the Marshal either asked for permission first or was directed by Race Control onto the track and would have been "covered" by a local Yella
I guess people know where the cars are but still when I saw him run out it got my attention...
Mixer is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2016, 05:51 (Ref:3679216)   #93
Compromised
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 848
Compromised should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixer View Post
Repeating it doesn't change it from an apples to oranges comparison.
Apples to oranges?

Large object in usually clear run off.

Local yellows.

Fairly quick section.

The only real difference I see is the outcome thankfully.
Compromised is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2016, 06:12 (Ref:3679219)   #94
Mixer
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location:
Surry Hills, NSW
Posts: 6,607
Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Dry track, with no chance of aquaplaning.
Neither vehicle an open wheel car, or a piece of heavy equipment
Mixer is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2016, 06:41 (Ref:3679223)   #95
bludvl_x19
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Australia
umop apisdn
Posts: 1,638
bludvl_x19 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridbludvl_x19 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridbludvl_x19 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridbludvl_x19 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by 275 GTB-4 View Post
I will bet my left agate that the Marshal either asked for permission first or was directed by Race Control onto the track and would have been "covered" by a local Yella
Correct on all counts, except it was double yellows.
bludvl_x19 is offline  
__________________
Supercars isn't the sport. The sport is motor racing.
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2016, 06:47 (Ref:3679224)   #96
Compromised
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 848
Compromised should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Ah ok so it's about the conditions, fair enough. Yeah no rain you're right there, that negates a lot of risk. Yellows were out, that makes things safer too. Supercar weighs less than the crane bianchi hit, less weight less impact so safer again.

But...

Conditions were good, so how did Kelly end up in the sand?

Yellows were out, but as peckstar has said, if you look at sector times some drivers seemed to slow for the yellow, others not.

So effectively the conditions are the same and in reality the yellows aren't out because some drivers are ignoring them.

Sound safe?

Look I do agree with you, in theory. Problem is in reality some drivers feel above yellow flags and there in lies the problem, not necessarily with the rules themselves.
Compromised is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2016, 08:57 (Ref:3679241)   #97
Alan52
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Australia
Glenmore Park
Posts: 1,634
Alan52 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridAlan52 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixer View Post
Off you go then - go buy all the gear necessary and provide to Supercars as a profitable aside.

I think the last time this got all discussed you needed between $300k-$500k to do it.

I've been a supplier to them in the past - have fun
As usual complete nonsense.Every car has a pit lane speed limiter.Every car sends data such as speed,rpm,gears etc back to TV network when asked.We have all seen this stuff on telecasts.They just send this same data to race control.Watch a WEC race- the race director does a 10 second countdown for cars to get to 60 and another one at the end of the end of the caution period.
Send me the cheque for $500K.
Alan52 is online now  
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2016, 09:21 (Ref:3679246)   #98
Mixer
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location:
Surry Hills, NSW
Posts: 6,607
Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Not even close, a hopeless oversimplification of what is required.
Mixer is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2016, 10:13 (Ref:3679253)   #99
Average Punter
Veteran
 
Average Punter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Australia
a drug store in Wagga
Posts: 1,661
Average Punter should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridAverage Punter should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridAverage Punter should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Seems to me that yellows are now taken to mean simply "no passing"

I was taught that yellows mean caution, slow down AND no passing

I didn't see Whincup do the first two...

He was intent on gapping the field to negate the 15sec penalty.

What if by blasting past the yellow at warp speed (whilst Willy D obeyed the flags and slowed down) Whincup was able to get sufficient gap to still win despite the penalty?

Now THAT would have been interesting for the stewards!
Average Punter is offline  
__________________
Punters Beer Fest. Indy 02, Clipsal 03, Winton 04, Paperclip 05, Darwin 06, Oran Park 07, Phillip Island 08, Sandown 09, Townsville 10, Symmons 11, Eastern Creek 12, Winton 13. Townsville 14. Paperclip 15, Sandown 16, Symmons 17, PI 18, The Bend 19
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2016, 10:20 (Ref:3679254)   #100
one five five
Veteran
 
one five five's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,260
one five five should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridone five five should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixer View Post
Off you go then - go buy all the gear necessary and provide to Supercars as a profitable aside.

I think the last time this got all discussed you needed between $300k-$500k to do it.
Wouldn't it be up to CAMS to fund that??

Maybe they can put the money into Code 60's instead of Formula 4...
one five five is offline  
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Can local Race Control over rule visiting Race Director ?? PVDA Marshals Forum 20 16 Jun 2014 19:09
Race control to race car radio communications. Al Weyman Racers Forum 145 13 Dec 2009 17:53
marshalls/ race control crspaffo A1GP 2 27 Oct 2005 02:39
Race Control ruin another race Buckshot Australasian Touring Cars. 72 21 Oct 2003 23:17
Oulton Park Race Control Mark Mitchell Marshals Forum 10 23 Apr 2003 17:20


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:42.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.