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View Poll Results: Which driver combination will win the Pirtek Enduro Cup?
#2 Pye/Luff WP HOLDEN 0 0%
#3 Russell/Douglas LDM HOLDEN 0 0%
#5 Winterbottom/Canto PRA FORD 0 0%
#6 Waters/Stanaway PRA FORD 0 0%
#7 T.Kelly/Le Brocq NisMo NISSAN 0 0%
#8 Percat/Jones BJR HOLDEN 0 0%
#9 Reynolds/Youlden Erebus HOLDEN 0 0%
#12 Coulthard/D'Alberto DJRTP FORD 2 6.90%
#14 Slade/Walsh BJR HOLDEN 1 3.45%
#15 R.Kelly/Wall NisMo NISSAN 0 0%
#17 McLaughlin/Premat DJRTP FORD 7 24.14%
#18 Holdsworth/Reindler CSR HOLDEN 0 0%
#19 W.Davison/Webb Tekno HOLDEN 0 0%
#21 Blanchard/Hazelwood TBR HOLDEN 0 0%
#22 Courtney/Perkins WP HOLDEN 0 0%
#23 Caruso/Fiore NisMo NISSAN 0 0%
#33 Tander/Golding GRM HOLDEN 0 0%
#34 Moffat/Muscat GRM HOLDEN 0 0%
#55 Mostert/Owen PRA FORD 1 3.45%
#56 Bright/Jacobson PRA FORD 1 3.45%
#62 Rullo/A.Davison LDM HOLDEN 1 3.45%
#78 de Silvestro/D.Russell NisMo NISSAN 0 0%
#88 Whincup/Dumbrell 888 HOLDEN 7 24.14%
#97 van Gisbergen/Campbell 888 HOLDEN 6 20.69%
#99 Wood/Pither Erebus HOLDEN 0 0%
#888 Lowndes/Richards 888 HOLDEN 3 10.34%
Voters: 29. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 1 Aug 2017, 03:33 (Ref:3756581)   #151
Umai Naa
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Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I think my previous post proves it's point...

Re: the Davo/Davo combination, it could be a good thing. Very similar drivers in a lot of ways.
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Old 1 Aug 2017, 03:40 (Ref:3756582)   #152
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I think my previous post proves it's point...

Re: the Davo/Davo combination, it could be a good thing. Very similar drivers in a lot of ways.
After that thought, yep for sure, you nailed it
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Old 2 Aug 2017, 09:22 (Ref:3756874)   #153
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I thought JLB was taken out by caruso, Both commentators agree with me.

Got to leave room
Those commentators have no idea half the time. I like Neil and Mark but some of their comments are just stupid. Anyone who has raced around QR would know how the corner flows, Caruso did no wrong. He was near the apex and then came out towards the racing line which he had cleared Jack, if anything Jack was in the wrong as you cant hold that line and think you wont hit them.

To prove my point

The start of it Caruso was perfectly fine, on the apex nothing wrong
https://prnt.sc/g3cleo

Next part to get the run, and for Micheal it would have also been the way the car pushes over, as you can see the racing line pushes out wide, sometimes you cant do a thing, by rights Jack should have lifted the tiniest, dropped in behind, had a decent run to keep with #23 and stay ahead of Hazlewood. Still car 23 on the right line and would have had as much lock trying to get away from Jack, but the momentum carries you onto that line. Here is the evidence for that
http://prntscr.com/g3cm4o

This is where they both end up in trouble, Micheals car as I said would have been getting settled. Jack was still hanging out there hoping that he could do it. To a point Jack could have gone over a little tiny bit more to the ripple strip at this point and no contact would have unfolded, to mention too, on Jack's line he would have still be turning in trying not to eat dirt while Micheal was getting set for the run. http://prntscr.com/g3cm4o

And we then know the end story, partially racing incident. Jack should have lifted, Micheal maybe was a little to paced, but that's the normal line and for Micheal to lift he would have had a number 35 car parked in him compared to Jack who would have lost 1 and at worse 2 spots and still be running, it was Micheals corner and Jack made a rookie error, he will learn hopefully, and better after his Chadha episode

Last edited by mceci1; 2 Aug 2017 at 09:35.
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Old 2 Aug 2017, 09:54 (Ref:3756878)   #154
Umai Naa
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Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Current mindset from the rulemakers is that you can't cart someone wide onto the grass whilst overtaking.

Which is what Mr Caruso was doing as the two cars banged wheels.
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Old 2 Aug 2017, 10:10 (Ref:3756881)   #155
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Current mindset from the rulemakers is that you can't cart someone wide onto the grass whilst overtaking.

Which is what Mr Caruso was doing as the two cars banged wheels.
Current rule makers need to get in a race car then and learn how the hell the corner flows then don't they. As for Luff, he wasn't very switched on throughout the weekend, I like him as a driver but that's exactly what he should stick to, DRIVING
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Old 2 Aug 2017, 10:20 (Ref:3756883)   #156
Umai Naa
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Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
The current rulemakers are ex-racing drivers.
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Old 2 Aug 2017, 10:36 (Ref:3756886)   #157
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The current rulemakers are ex-racing drivers.
Tell me something, have you raced QR, if not then you will have the perspective of what happens from the outside, until you actually run around the corner at speed you don't know how it works, for a small track QR is actually quite complex
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Old 2 Aug 2017, 10:47 (Ref:3756892)   #158
one five five
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I have (state/club type stuff)

Doesn't matter how the corner 'flows', Caruso could have easily made it around the corner and given JLB room, he chose not to. The steering wheel works both ways.

the rule-makers state you can't run someone off the track, full stop.
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Old 2 Aug 2017, 11:07 (Ref:3756898)   #159
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I have (state/club type stuff)

Doesn't matter how the corner 'flows', Caruso could have easily made it around the corner and given JLB room, he chose not to. The steering wheel works both ways.

the rule-makers state you can't run someone off the track, full stop.
He lifts off and Todd is in the back of him. And I can make a certain guess that then Todd would have been penalised. Lowndes lifted off for McLaughlin, why couldn't Le Brocq, he will learn, when you carry that pace into the corner, I know that the car can unvoluntarily understeer across. Happens time to time and it seems that's what happened here. I beat if it was reversed it would still be Micheal at fault. It was really a racing incident. I myself have had understeer there and know how it can catch you unaware. He made the move, close on the apex. McLaughlin on Lowndes was on the apex ripplestrip and still slid out into Lowndes causing Lowndes to lift, so you can argue that Caruso was in the wrong but it was a racing incident and the way the car behaves there wasn't much from Caruso's point that he could do. For Jack, it was an error trying to make an issue but he is smart enough to learn and I doubt we will see him do it again
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Old 2 Aug 2017, 11:09 (Ref:3756899)   #160
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Originally Posted by one five five View Post
I have (state/club type stuff)

Doesn't matter how the corner 'flows', Caruso could have easily made it around the corner and given JLB room, he chose not to. The steering wheel works both ways.

the rule-makers state you can't run someone off the track, full stop.
thats my interpretation of the rules we have been running all year and generally in this case have been consistently applied
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Old 2 Aug 2017, 11:12 (Ref:3756900)   #161
Umai Naa
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Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
The onus is on the driver making the pass.
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Old 2 Aug 2017, 11:39 (Ref:3756910)   #162
mceci1
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The onus is on the driver making the pass.
Well then, the next time SVG spins someone like he did at Clispsal 16 and 15 he better get penalised and NO ONE better make an excuse of 'but it was a silly little error that he didn't mean to do'
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Old 2 Aug 2017, 11:50 (Ref:3756914)   #163
Umai Naa
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Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I'm just reitterating the rules.

I care not, for past examples that didn't go your way.
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Old 2 Aug 2017, 11:55 (Ref:3756920)   #164
mceci1
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I'm just reitterating the rules.

I care not, for past examples that didn't go your way.
The rules don't consider how some corners work. While I agree with most, I don't believe anyone was to blame for the Caruso Le Brocq crash, anyone with half a brain of logic would see it
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Old 2 Aug 2017, 12:46 (Ref:3756935)   #165
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This is a great example of where I think motorsport - F1 inspired as usual - have gone down the wrong path.

In the old days, getting your nose into a gap gave you the right to a car's width. Getting mostly past in the corner meant you'd won the corner. Of course, that doesn't mean you could just biff your way through, but if you got partly alongside before the apex then it was deemed a 'great move'. But also if you haven't completely got in front by the exit, then you also have to modify your acceleration to leave a car's width on the outside. We called it 'racing'.

Physics largely agrees with that interpretation. If you've stuck your nose in, then your pretty much certain to be on the limit of adhesion both in braking and turning and if the guy on the outside turns in it's not actually possible to avoid him.

Sadly these days, overtaking must be done in a straight line and largely completed before the end of the braking zone (you must be at least fully level with the car alongside) as a result of which it's largely impossible, and so doesn't happen. Even worse when given the F1 'one move' which you can leave until the person behind has committed himself to one side or the other. We call that 'driving around in circles in a big procession' and it's not nearly as interesting as 'racing' used to be!
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Old 2 Aug 2017, 13:17 (Ref:3756944)   #166
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The rules don't consider how some corners work. While I agree with most, I don't believe anyone was to blame for the Caruso Le Brocq crash, anyone with half a brain of logic would see it
I have no brain but Caruso gave him no room.........he was Guilty !!!!!!!!
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Old 2 Aug 2017, 13:19 (Ref:3756946)   #167
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I have (state/club type stuff)

Doesn't matter how the corner 'flows', Caruso could have easily made it around the corner and given JLB room, he chose not to. The steering wheel works both ways.

the rule-makers state you can't run someone off the track, full stop.
BINGO !!!!
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Old 2 Aug 2017, 21:55 (Ref:3757064)   #168
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The rules don't consider how some corners work. While I agree with most, I don't believe anyone was to blame for the Caruso Le Brocq crash, anyone with half a brain of logic would see it
The rules for many years now allow for all corners, leave someone racing room. a driver can not just power out to the edge of the track just because they have mostly won the corner. This allows two cars to go side by side along the next straight and potentially we see a pass in the next corner.

I think your JLB dislike is showing
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Old 3 Aug 2017, 04:25 (Ref:3757112)   #169
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Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Sadly these days, overtaking must be done in a straight line and largely completed before the end of the braking zone (you must be at least fully level with the car alongside) as a result of which it's largely impossible, and so doesn't happen. Even worse when given the F1 'one move' which you can leave until the person behind has committed himself to one side or the other. We call that 'driving around in circles in a big procession' and it's not nearly as interesting as 'racing' used to be!
With HANS devices and driving position in the centre now it is harder and harder to see someone who wants to dive bomb so drivers will close the door and end up spinning out. If you allow it like this you end up with 90s BTCC style crash up derby which was out of control.

Careful of the rose-coloured glasses!
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Old 3 Aug 2017, 06:44 (Ref:3757129)   #170
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This is a great example of where I think motorsport - F1 inspired as usual - have gone down the wrong path.

In the old days, getting your nose into a gap gave you the right to a car's width. Getting mostly past in the corner meant you'd won the corner. Of course, that doesn't mean you could just biff your way through, but if you got partly alongside before the apex then it was deemed a 'great move'. But also if you haven't completely got in front by the exit, then you also have to modify your acceleration to leave a car's width on the outside. We called it 'racing'.

Physics largely agrees with that interpretation. If you've stuck your nose in, then your pretty much certain to be on the limit of adhesion both in braking and turning and if the guy on the outside turns in it's not actually possible to avoid him.

Sadly these days, overtaking must be done in a straight line and largely completed before the end of the braking zone (you must be at least fully level with the car alongside) as a result of which it's largely impossible, and so doesn't happen. Even worse when given the F1 'one move' which you can leave until the person behind has committed himself to one side or the other. We call that 'driving around in circles in a big procession' and it's not nearly as interesting as 'racing' used to be!

It was a good move by Caruso in my opinion its just a shame he had what appears to be wash or understeer and took both out, no fault to either. Now it seems the keyboard warriors don't think its a good move unless its like SVG and the car is hanging 'right out sideways'.
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Old 3 Aug 2017, 06:48 (Ref:3757130)   #171
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The rules for many years now allow for all corners, leave someone racing room. a driver can not just power out to the edge of the track just because they have mostly won the corner. This allows two cars to go side by side along the next straight and potentially we see a pass in the next corner.

I think your JLB dislike is showing
I don't have a Le Brocq disliking. It was a wash on Caruso's car which pushed him wide into Le Brocq, as I have said before, you cant pin blame in the instance of outside view. To me it looked like understeer or aero wash. No penalty was handed down as far as I'm aware too which confirms that DSO saw it as racing incident too and would have in car footage and telementry. I know the situation and feel sorry for both as not a thing could be done.

Last edited by mceci1; 3 Aug 2017 at 06:56.
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Old 3 Aug 2017, 06:50 (Ref:3757131)   #172
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With HANS devices and driving position in the centre now it is harder and harder to see someone who wants to dive bomb so drivers will close the door and end up spinning out. If you allow it like this you end up with 90s BTCC style crash up derby which was out of control.

Careful of the rose-coloured glasses!
There is a lot wearing rose glasses, none realise the situation and how NEITHER driver was at fault. Lowndes and McLaughlin had the same pass, with Lowndes needing to really lift for Scott to not hit him, it was the same scenario except experience helped. Jack will now know how overtaking on that particular corner works and I'd say is smart enough not to bat on with it right there but hold back and set the pass up for turn 3. Also you compromised the argument by the others with the HANS free. With a HANS free device in those cars its easier to see the right hand side mirror then the left, which Micheal would have been in that situation. Racing incident as I said
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Old 3 Aug 2017, 07:05 (Ref:3757134)   #173
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peckstar has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
I see penrite have a retro competition going for sandown

Today''s efforts a Ch 9 camaro look
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Old 3 Aug 2017, 07:13 (Ref:3757135)   #174
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I see penrite have a retro competition going for sandown

Today''s efforts a Ch 9 camaro look
interesting
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Old 3 Aug 2017, 07:42 (Ref:3757141)   #175
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one five five should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridone five five should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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It was a good move by Caruso in my opinion its just a shame he had what appears to be wash or understeer and took both out, no fault to either.
Surely if your car understeers, you are ultimately at fault for the car doing so (excluding mechanical failure, or a hit up the backside)

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Today''s efforts a Ch 9 camaro look
It looks good. I did have to smile at the Camaro photo that went with the #9 retro Penrite Commodore drawing on Facebook, showing a big Valvoline sticker on the rear end though
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