[Team] Haas: Gene Haas of NASCAR attempting to start F1 team

[Richard C]

Haas is in a pickle. I think the FIA did them no favors by letting Mazepin continue to participate.

Richard

[BertMk2]

Well Mazepin can't compete at the British GP - Motorsport UK have decided to ban Russian teams and drivers from all MSUK sanctioned events.

https://www.motorsportuk.org/news/mo...on-in-ukraine/

[steve_r]

Surely it is just a matter of time before Pietro Fittipaldi takes over the seat and Mazepin is dropped altogether.

Haas then go back to having almost no sponsorship, much like their first couple of seasons.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

Well Mazepin can't compete at the British GP - Motorsport UK have decided to ban Russian teams and drivers from all MSUK sanctioned events.

https://www.motorsportuk.org/news/mo...on-in-ukraine/

Seems like it would cover the originally planned Haas livery as well being outlawed, being as it was to all intents and purposes a Russian Flag on wheels.

Of course maybe Haas have already taken the livery and sponsorship connotations into their own hands.

I must admit I have been of the opinion for some days that we will see a Haas with Pietro Fittipaldi in the car in Bahrain.

Good to see MUK having the spine that the FIA lacked in their weak actions. Hopefully other National bodies will follow the MUK lead.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by E.B

Of course maybe Haas have already taken the livery and sponsorship connotations into their own hands.

Rich Energy?

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

Well Mazepin can't compete at the British GP - Motorsport UK have decided to ban Russian teams and drivers from all MSUK sanctioned events.

https://www.motorsportuk.org/news/mo...on-in-ukraine/

I can't imagine how that ends well for anyone. Mazepin maybe has a bit of a anchor for the govt to act on but next is Kyvat? You can sever the money, but when you start banning athletes who have left their native land as punishment for a regime they may not be involved in?? DAMN close to acting well beyond anything other than false hatred and anger. See Japanese-American internment in WW2 for how well that went.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Rich Energy?

Someone had to say it.

Richard

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

I can't imagine how that ends well for anyone. Mazepin maybe has a bit of a anchor for the govt to act on but next is Kyvat? You can sever the money, but when you start banning athletes who have left their native land as punishment for a regime they may not be involved in?? DAMN close to acting well beyond anything other than false hatred and anger. See Japanese-American internment in WW2 for how well that went.

Ive said it elsewhere but im conflicted with this.

I suppose it depends where the money comes from. With Mazepin, id say yes absolutely ban him. money comes from Daddy who is a close friend of the Kremlin....

....some 17 year old kid with no links, just trying to make a career and im not so sure.

Youve also got the likes of Schwartzman who is part of the Ferrari academy....Israel by birth but russian passport, so where does he stand?

The possibility of duel nationalities/ licences been granted in different countries etc etc is interesting.


Then theres the opposite side to all this. Should we really be promoting and allowing russian talent while kids are being murdered by Putin...but then again, when has that stopped us before in other conflicts....


Is a bit, well...messy....i dont know where i stand on this other than fully supporting a ban on russian flags, teams, sponsors and anything linked to russian/ money/ oligarghs etc etc

[steve_r]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

I can't imagine how that ends well for anyone. Mazepin maybe has a bit of a anchor for the govt to act on but next is Kyvat? You can sever the money, but when you start banning athletes who have left their native land as punishment for a regime they may not be involved in?? DAMN close to acting well beyond anything other than false hatred and anger. See Japanese-American internment in WW2 for how well that went.

Whilst we are edging closer to the edge of what is sport and what is politics, my thoughts on the question of "what about <insert name of nice smiley and uncontroversial Russian sports person here>" is this:

A lot of the world are rightly and justifiably angry and upset about the awful situation developing in Ukraine, and a lot of the world are unified in this position. Whilst sport by comparison is not important, by taking only token actions in sport (flags / anthems banned) you are giving the message to the Russian people that it is "business as usual", and that are no repercussions to the actions of their leaders. This is nothing to do with hating the Russian sports people.

For example, look at the huge haul of medals that the supposedly limited Russian team took in the winter olympics. To many people that is "business as usual", apart from the fact that they had a different flag and their tracksuits were not in national colours.

I enjoy boxing and particularly heavyweight boxing. The current world champion Olaksander Usyk, plus former world champions Wldamir and Vitali Klitschko have all joined the Ukrainian army and are risking their lives when they could have easily taken their millions of dollars and moved away and brought a massive mansion to live in. This hits home the reality of the situation, to me at least.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

I can't imagine how that ends well for anyone. Mazepin maybe has a bit of a anchor for the govt to act on but next is Kyvat? You can sever the money, but when you start banning athletes who have left their native land as punishment for a regime they may not be involved in?? DAMN close to acting well beyond anything other than false hatred and anger. See Japanese-American internment in WW2 for how well that went.

I hear your concerns on the Japanese-American internment. It IS a slippery slope in which we have to be careful with.

I think right now we are talking "citizenship" and not "ethnicity", "heritage" or "race". If Mazepin had dual citizenship elsewhere and raced under that flag, I would have no issue. Or someone who emigrated from Russia, etc. I think the key thing here is that this is about putting pressure on the Russian leadership and not about individual punishment of those caught in the middle. Are people like Mazepin caught up in this due to no personal fault of their own? Sure. But like it or not, these are war time actions and the impacts escalate to levels that are not normally acceptable.

And the impacts of these limits are not evenly distributed. While everyone is going to feel a pinch (such as current gas prices in the US and elsewhere) those who have higher profiles and/or work outside of Russian territory, will feel it a bit more. And in a way that is correct because when they are outside of Russia, they are in many ways representing their country. And while they may not feel they have signed up for that job, they are representatives. Mazepin is not pushing any of this topic regarding him driving or not. The motorsports community is because like it or not, and regardless of his personal feelings, he is a surrogate for Russia.

Richard

[chillibowl]

am i not correct in saying that they can always apply to race under a licence from a different country without changing their nationality?

if so then i have far less sympathy for a motorsports competitor or official then say athlete who would actually have to go through a real immigration process/change in order to compete.

every sport has to act accordingly and in this particular case i like the decision that Motorsport UK has taken.

for Russian athletes competing on NHL teams in N.America it becomes more complicated in that while they maintain their nationality while playing here (and some even are strong Putin supporters) they are not competing under their national flag at all.

for international competition, i think its wrong to force teams that have strong ties to the aggrieved nation to play against a team that represents their aggressors (and would like to see international teams hold western nations to this standard if and when we frequently act the aggressor nation).

sympathize with the IOC who have, because of a myriad of recent sanctions against the institutional level of cheating from Russia, have exhausted other measures and are now required to escalate this to a full ban.

for sure its all very complicated and i hope we dont get to a point where all sports have to be put on hold (again).

whether we like it or not sports (pro sports in particular) is a commodity so should i look at this any differently then saying a commodity from Russia should be banned?

but whatever my changing/evolving opinion may be, perhaps now is the time to say that going forward, regardless of how we looked at this in the past, if your country is tied to an illegal war then its citizens will have to deal with the consequences within the global community.

we like to blame our politicians for everything...maybe its time we also take responsibility for them as well?

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by steve_r

Whilst we are edging closer to the edge of what is sport and what is politics...

this is the question.

in my previous post i said whether we like it or not, sports, pro sports in particular, has become a commodity.

we are all, or most of us, are fine with the morality of banning commodities made by the aggressor nation.

we think of this a more of a response to what they did rather then an action we are committing to them.

so why are we looking at sports thing as something our sports leagues are doing to Russian athletes?

for me, i see this more as something the Russian government has done to its own citizens. by virtue of their unwarranted actions, they are preventing their citizens/athletes from competing against us. we are simply responding right?

maybe thats an equivocation. will leave that for others to decide.

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by steve_r

For example, look at the huge haul of medals that the supposedly limited Russian team took in the winter olympics. To many people that is "business as usual", apart from the fact that they had a different flag and their tracksuits were not in national colours.

And i think thats where the problem lies with allowing russian athletes to operate under a neutral flag....it doesnt work.

We know theyre russian, the russians celebrate the fact theyre russian and the Kremlin gets the Kodos along with it.

Banning them completely while 'unfair' (i use that word because i cant think of another) Actually makes the russians wake up a bit.

Youve got to remember that they are under a twisted media regieme, any way of making them notice something is different or has gone is a signal to them and can start questions.

Thats really what all these sanctions are about. If you listen to the interviews of a lot of the russians that have been captured, theyve been brainwashed into thinking the west is bad, that ukraine would welcome them with open arms.

Banning russian athletes removes the ability for the russian media to celebrate success, apple and other companies removing products in theory makes russians question whats really going on.

Soon Russia will have to open their stock markets, it will crash along with the rubel, they wont be able to sell or buy produce, travel via planes, buy goods on the internet etc.

Unfortunately, all this is designed to make peoples lives in Russia a misery. It can go one of 2 ways, they will hate Putin, or they will hate the West. If its the former, they and the oligarghs who have their assets frozen will remove Putin, if its the latter they will fight for him....but with no equiptment, money or fuel how long will that fight last?

sorry, way too political for a motorsport thread.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

And i think thats where the problem lies with allowing russian athletes to operate under a neutral flag....it doesnt work.

We know theyre russian, the russians celebrate the fact theyre russian and the Kremlin gets the Kodos along with it.

Well said.

This is a big mess. And it's unfortunate that politics and world events are factoring into F1 right now. But that is the reality.

Richard

[kipper]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

am i not correct in saying that they can always apply to race under a licence from a different country without changing their nationality?

In theory, yes - and there a number of examples of where this has occurred. For example, Kamui Kobayashi has used a Monegasque licence.

However, such a switch requires the agreement of the the driver's original ASN. This is primarily to prevent a driver that has been banned from getting a new licence to circumvent such a ban.

Secondly, the 'new' ASN is not compelled to grant a licence. I suspect that due to the current situation, few ASN's would feel overly comfortable in granting a Russian a licence.

[Richard C]

Can I say I appreciate that we have had a few days of healthy discussion on touchy topics without it leading to forum drama.



Richard

PS: I have now jinxed it.

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Hopefully Haas can avoid controversy this way. Just need Mazepin to get some results this year and hopefully the team can distance themselves from Putin. There will definitely be as much effort to avoid bad publicity as possible, without changing drivers

I doubt Mazepin will be in the Haas or even in the same country as the team.

Nice and classy by David Richards and MSUK - take note FIA.

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

And i think thats where the problem lies with allowing russian athletes to operate under a neutral flag....it doesnt work.

We know theyre russian, the russians celebrate the fact theyre russian and the Kremlin gets the Kodos along with it.

Banning them completely while 'unfair' (i use that word because i cant think of another) Actually makes the russians wake up a bit.

Youve got to remember that they are under a twisted media regieme, any way of making them notice something is different or has gone is a signal to them and can start questions.

Thats really what all these sanctions are about. If you listen to the interviews of a lot of the russians that have been captured, theyve been brainwashed into thinking the west is bad, that ukraine would welcome them with open arms.

Banning russian athletes removes the ability for the russian media to celebrate success, apple and other companies removing products in theory makes russians question whats really going on.

Soon Russia will have to open their stock markets, it will crash along with the rubel, they wont be able to sell or buy produce, travel via planes, buy goods on the internet etc.

Unfortunately, all this is designed to make peoples lives in Russia a misery. It can go one of 2 ways, they will hate Putin, or they will hate the West. If its the former, they and the oligarghs who have their assets frozen will remove Putin, if its the latter they will fight for him....but with no equiptment, money or fuel how long will that fight last?

sorry, way too political for a motorsport thread.

Agreed, and the FIA telling motorsport they can peel the Russian flag off the side of the car, stick something else and carry on is just lame, an insult to the current situation and just re-enforces the idea that motorsport is all about money and doesn't care where it comes from.

Not been a good start for the new FIA president, IMO.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Rich Energy?

ok fair cop guvnor!

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

Agreed, and the FIA telling motorsport they can peel the Russian flag off the side of the car, stick something else and carry on is just lame, an insult to the current situation and just re-enforces the idea that motorsport is all about money and doesn't care where it comes from.

Not been a good start for the new FIA president, IMO.

In his defence, as highlighted on Radio Le Mans tonight, there’s about 20 WMSC members who took part in this discussion/ vote. We don’t know what was said or how they voted…I’m not even sure if it has to be unanimous or a majority result.

I do think Dave Richards has got it right in the U.K. though, even if I do feel a little sorry for the young drivers caught up in this.

[Greem]

They've terminated both Mazepin's contract and the Uralkali sponsorship.

Haven't got a link to the announcement, but they denounced Russia's invasion of Ukraine too.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Greem

They've terminated both Mazepin's contract and the Uralkali sponsorship.

Haven't got a link to the announcement, but they denounced Russia's invasion of Ukraine too.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/60630464

Haas said in their statement: "As with the rest of the Formula 1 community, the team is shocked and saddened by the invasion of Ukraine and wishes for a swift and peaceful end to the conflict."

[Anyopenroad]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/60630464

Haas said in their statement: "As with the rest of the Formula 1 community, the team is shocked and saddened by the invasion of Ukraine and wishes for a swift and peaceful end to the conflict."

That’s not much of a “denouncement”.

[chillibowl]

my personal feeling is that this Mazepin saga is far far from over.

apparently he is scheduled for a presser this wednesday in which i presume he will talk about why it all went wrong/why he didnt pursue other avenues to keep his seat etc.

get your popcorn ready!

also sounds like Fittipaldi has been confirmed for the test but not yet the season.

granted when he filled in for Romain it was on short notice and didnt have much time in the car before hand, but he also failed to shine in the following race and specifically after he did get time in the car...perhaps he is older and more prepared for a shot now?

personally rooting for Fittipaldi more then Giovinazzi to be honest. experience would be Giovinazzi's main attribute but given that he didnt really shine against his much older and experienced team mate last year, how much is Giovinazzi's experience really worth?

whoever they get though, this is a real opportunity for Mick to show if he can be a leader or not. from what people are saying about the netflix show, Mick put up with a lot of shenanigans last season and seemingly did so without much public complaint. if thats true, then this endears me to him...hope his season and career isnt compromised by the issues facing Haas.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

personally rooting for Fittipaldi more then Giovinazzi to be honest. experience would be Giovinazzi's main attribute but given that he didnt really shine against his much older and experienced team mate last year, how much is Giovinazzi's experience really worth?

Apart from the joke final season of FV8, or whatever it was called, Pietro was very, very poor throughout his junior career.