'We're Not Bullies' - TC

[Jacob Black]

Barbagallo Raceway is in dire need of upgrade, it's pit facilities are woeful, anyone who's had to try to navigate them during a race weekend knows this.

I think of it this way... if you wanted U2 to play, you wouldn't put them on a bunky stage, you'd allow storage for their equipment, the ability to easily transfer from green room to stage, etc etc.

V8 Supercars are a professional show, they require a professional stage, I think that the fact those rounds are even on the calender, shows that V8 Supercars is hoping to retain them.

I appreciate Cochrane's forthright replies, even if I don't like everything he says. Our sport needs a bit more bluntness, and a bit more honesty. I'm a bit dismayed by the swathes of slagging off that goes on in these forums.

[mtpanorama]

Originally Posted by peckstar

Casper, Mt panaroma gets used more than two weekends a year. there are currently plans to extend the circuit so that is available for even more use. You can be sure that this will not happen without TC lobbying on its behalf.

Now you are talking out your arse. The second circuit has nothing to do with TC or V8 supercars. From my knowledge of the goings on of the second circuit proposal it is being pushed by Bathurst council and the motorcycle fraternitiy with involvment of circuit racing people. Nothing to do with V8's. Also the push for the $25m for the new pit complex came well before TC thought that it would be a good idea.

[peckstar]

mt panorama I agree that TC is not involved in the new circuit, but thats not what i said. i said it wont happen with out TC lobbying on its behalf.

Just like the 25 million pit complex needed TC lobbying on its behalf.

He has the product and the staff to make this sort of thing happen. Up until recently motorsport did not have that sort of support and so we wallowed as a sub standard government supported sport, If tracks are to get upgrades they either need to find a wealthy benefactor or work damn hard which means listening to the people, or get some government support, or all three

[cptkablamo]

Well they are bullies, but I don't see why they should be an apologist for it...

like any major business they are trying to build their brand and make themselves money...I don't agree or like much of what they do and stand for, but in that way, they are not exactly unique

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by peckstar

Mountain star, note this from the article "“We’ve been working with them, encouraging them, helping, assisting, you name it, for five years at least… to either upgrade Wanneroo or build a new permanent facility in Perth.”" thats hardly the voice of someone who is bullying and threatning. thats the sounds of frustrations because the WA government have sat on there hands for 5 years and ignored motorsport in WA. TC said we will come to WA for the enxt 5 years if you upgrade your facilities, so far no committment. It's not TC holding wa fans to ransom, it the WA government

IMHO I don't believe it's the governments role to run race tracks. Even though it happens I don't believe that is the role of guvment.

WA has what? maybe 3 million people. It's a small market to support a road racing facility, especially an expensive upgrade. There is probably only so much they will be able to do.

As we found with Eastern Creek, ultimately the return from the V8 race has to make a profit and support the constant upgrades V8SC always wants. If it makes a loss, once upgrade costs have been factored in, then there is no point running the race. It's a hard line to walk for both parties I think.

If governments like up in Townsville or in Sydney are willing to support V8 street racing then fine. Certainly there are a lot of advantages to taking it to the streets. However I wouldn't be too quick to burn bridges.

V8's are very dependent on commercial sponsorship and it becomes a tougher sell if V8 races end up in certain areas neglecting markets like WA for instance.

[bazil]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

There is nothing to stop someone from starting up a Group A or C style series outside of TC, to bring back the golden days of touring car racing? I'm sure Ten/One would be interested in broadcasting with so many hours to fill.

Great idea and an easy fix;

You could put together a pretty good series management team made up from a few dedicated Supercar Tony haters that lurk these forums. (C’mon fellas, here’s your big chance to show the bad man how it should be done)

You could meet regularly, whinge a lot, complain about how you don’t get government support, assemble discussion groups to discuss more stuff about "why them and not us" and the latest important threads on the chat forums. Get the ARDC and Bob Jane and Peter McKay involved, talk about insurance, the good old days and stuff and schedule a few more meetings to discuss more stuff. Then you could spend another half a million or so of members hard earned fees on some even newer plans for EC and Calder if the stupid government people will just give you another 100 million or 2. Finally you could schedule another meeting to discuss the various committees and discussion groups to see what they talked about, and discuss that...


As for actually putting a series together, generating revenue, attracting sponsors and putting on a show even half interesting enough to attract some spectators, well...

[retro]

..."This thread is an outrage"...

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

IMHO I don't believe it's the governments role to run race tracks. Even though it happens I don't believe that is the role of guvment.

WA has what? maybe 3 million people. It's a small market to support a road racing facility, especially an expensive upgrade. There is probably only so much they will be able to do.

As we found with Eastern Creek, ultimately the return from the V8 race has to make a profit and support the constant upgrades V8SC always wants. If it makes a loss, once upgrade costs have been factored in, then there is no point running the race. It's a hard line to walk for both parties I think.

If governments like up in Townsville or in Sydney are willing to support V8 street racing then fine. Certainly there are a lot of advantages to taking it to the streets. However I wouldn't be too quick to burn bridges.

V8's are very dependent on commercial sponsorship and it becomes a tougher sell if V8 races end up in certain areas neglecting markets like WA for instance.

Im not actually disagreeing with you, But if you think what you just said. 3 million people, at $10 per head thats $30 million people, small price to pay to update an out of date racing circuit and for the record the WA surplus this year is over $600 million with an $8.3 Billion (note the "B") infrastructure spending. Now tell me why they cant kick in some money to support motorsport, they support other sports, they support the arts, and they have a $559 million recreation and culture budget

oh yeah so how does that make TC a bully when thats who he is fighting against. The oily wheel get the oil

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by peckstar

Im not actually disagreeing with you, But if you think what you just said. 3 million people, at $10 per head thats $30 million people, small price to pay to update an out of date racing circuit and for the record the WA surplus this year is over $600 million with an $8.3 Billion (note the "B") infrastructure spending. Now tell me why they cant kick in some money to support motorsport, they support other sports, they support the arts, and they have a $559 million recreation and culture budget

oh yeah so how does that make TC a bully when thats who he is fighting against. The oily wheel get the oil

Sure I guess if the circuit ends up being used for driver training, etc. maybe you could justify that expenditure, but again personally I don't believe it is the guvments job to fund the arts, sports and other stuff. To me that either funds itself or not through it's own endeavors.

I think what makes TC a bully is I have seen him be rather caustic over the years, often times unnecessarily. He does try to force the issue sometimes which he might want to watch as sometime he may get bit back.

Mr. Tetley there at QR is a good example of why getting guvment involved is not a good thing. He doesn't really own the place so why make the investment in things he wouldn't own? I understand where he is coming from.

[Rachel Richards]

Originally Posted by peckstar

i guess all you wise people are right, TC should just shut up and say nothing and not push for improvements. that will make you happy i guess as circuits go backwards

Now who is the Hypocrite.

I certainly know who has a better interest for Australian Motorsport and its not the sooky lalas who post on here

Poor Peckie, dont be so sad; I've penned a little song for you.




To be Sung to the tune of The Great Pretender: (with very humble apologies to The Drifters)

Oh yes, I'm the great defender
Pretending that TC’s doing well
My need is such; I defend too much
I'm wrong, but I’ll allow no one to tell.

Oh yes, I'm the great defender
A drift in a world of my own
I play TC’s game; but to my real shame
Tenths, you've all left me to dream all alone.


Oh yes I'm the great pretender
Just thinking V8’s will always be around.
I seem to be, Tony’s biggest fan; you see
I'm defending VESA like a clown
Pretending street circuits will always be around.

.

[peckstar]

sure play the man

its typical of one who has nothing to say and cant argue against the facts.
but good lyrical skills, i appreciate the effort

[Road Train]

Originally Posted by Jacob Black

Barbagallo Raceway is in dire need of upgrade, it's pit facilities are woeful, anyone who's had to try to navigate them during a race weekend knows this.

Barbagallo is a disgrace. How they get a any meeting there is beyond me. We are the richest state in the country with the worst track. I would be hugely dissapointed if WA was to loose 'our' supercar round, but I would also understand.

Originally Posted by mountainstar

WA has what? maybe 3 million people. It's a small market to support a road racing facility, especially an expensive upgrade. There is probably only so much they will be able to do.

It's about 2 million people but who cares. There is still plenty of money in this state to take care of the upgrades. If this gets done by TC being a bully, then my hat goes off to him.

[TSR]

Originally Posted by Jacob Black

Our sport needs a bit more bluntness, .

That the problem, not much honset comes out of his TC mouth.

[Road Train]

TSR, regarding your signiture, 2 out of 3 ain't bad.

[Jacob Black]

Originally Posted by TSR

That the problem, not much honset comes out of his TC mouth.

If you mean honesty, I disagree. I've heard him dodge questions, but I can't think of an occassion where he's lied.

[racer69]

Originally Posted by Jacob Black

If you mean honesty, I disagree. I've heard him dodge questions, but I can't think of an occassion where he's lied.

Crowd figures?

While not a lie, i think he truly believed it, when he said there were no sacred sites in Australian motorsport (ie..Bathurst), then when he realised a Bathurst race was crucial got his backers to start up a whole new race there!

[Bevan-L]

Originally Posted by PVDA

So racing in the Middle East, Homebush, Adelaide, Surfers, Hamilton & Canberra has provided or will provide exactly what benefits for the other 51 weeks of the year to the local motorsport community??

Canberra wont provide **** since its inhabited with people who think they're **** dont stink and would rather spend 365 days a year at floriade.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by racer69

when he said there were no sacred sites in Australian motorsport (ie..Bathurst), then when he realised a Bathurst race was crucial got his backers to start up a whole new race there!

The 1000 classic or a second sprint round?

Strangely the 1000km race with 6 manufacturer teams and many of the world famous British championship drivers appeared to incredibly be less popular than a two-make taxi race! Only now can the V8s be considered comparable to golden age BTCC... a race in 1996 around a dusty Mallala with half a grid can't be compared to a 1996 BTCC round at world class Silverstone with packed stands... but now a race by TC's crew at Bahrain or Adelaide is just as comparable, that must be considered an acheivement surely.

[racer69]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

The 1000 classic or a second sprint round?

The 1000 Classic. The second sprint round as ditched after 1996, before Tony Cochrane/IMG/SEL came along

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Only now can the V8s be considered comparable to golden age BTCC... a race in 1996 around a dusty Mallala with half a grid can't be compared to a 1996 BTCC round at world class Silverstone with packed stands... but now a race by TC's crew at Bahrain or Adelaide is just as comparable, that must be considered an acheivement surely.

The 1996 BTCC averaged grids of around 20, a similiar figure to the grid sizes for V8s during 1996... the 1996 Bathurst 1000 attracted 35-odd starters, the end-of-year BTCC non-championship enduro had something like 14 starters

And alternatively you had a 1996 BTCC round at dusty Snetterton (nothing against Snetterton, i like the track) compared to a 1996 ATCC race at world class Phillip Island and the stands were packed at V8 races in 1996.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by retro

..."This thread is an outrage"...

TC's response about this thread: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3sln...eature=related

[Trevor]

TC has no interest in V8's, it is just a means to an end.

He is a promoter first and foremost and he will do what he can to achieve a good outcome for himself and the share-holders and if that means 'bullying', then so be it.

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by peckstar

its time for tracks to invest in better facilities, that they have ignored for many years.

Oh, so o' knowlegable one, where do the tracks get the money from, I can tell you first hand there is bugger all money left in the bank after tracks run V8 meetings, they rely on the real bread and butter of motorsport for their income, and that is the small events, car club, track hires etc

[V8 Fireworks]

Racing tracks must be good investments if Tony thinks the track owner's and governments should spend on big on upgrades, which will supposedly be a worthwhile earner for the tracks. Why not borrow some money and make the permanent race circuits a core VESA investment strategy -> doing the value-added upgrades themselves on their prime race track real estate? In NASCAR, the promoter ISC own many of the tracks don't they?

[V8Bobby]

I have been reading these forums for a while and the one thing that stands out is everyone's passion for motorsport, no matter what side of the fence you are coming from.

The one thing that a lot of you fail to realise though is that you are not the people being targeted by V8Supercars with their expansion plans. For the sport to grow, it needs to target a new audience. Whilst your passion for returning to the days of driving your car up to a permenant track with your BBQ and esky beside you to watch cars going head to head with each other may be valid, it is not what V8Supercars is about. First and foremost, V8Supercars is an entertainment category. It is there to give people a day out with all of the speed and action that is motorsport. Most people at Townsville this year had never been to a motorsport event and wouldn't go to another one all year, yet the event was a roaring success and the public loved it! That's what the sport is about. Without these large numbers, it would not look anything like it does today (granted, some people would like that!).

I have been at pretty much every round for the past 8 years (no, I'm not connected to VESA) and let me tell you, street races are where the sport needs to head. I see joe public paying $40 to go stand in the rain and mud in a paddock in Benalla vs. a few extra dollars for a world class event like Clipsal.

Ask anyone who has to queue up for 2 hours to get into Barbagallo to then stand on rock all day if they would prefer to either a) have better facilities or b) catch a train into Perth?

I agree that these traditional circuits have a strong place in Australian motorsport but the facts are that V8 Supercars has outgrown most of these circuits.

I disagree with a lot of what VESA has done (including only demanding in the past that most upgrades relate to team or corporate facilities), however with their street circuit push around the country, they are certainly on the right track.

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by V8Bobby

however with their street circuit push around the country, they are certainly on the right track.

In your opinion.