Unfulfilled talents - those who never achieved potential?

[marcus]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Don't think it was Gurney but may have been another American driver, i'm not sure. This was an FIA 3000 race, maybe Imola '01? not an Italian round. There was an atrocious display of rubber necking when the flags came out after some guy had crashed somewhere near the Villeneuve chicane and people were still bombing round at racing speed including Calcgani (who IIRC had just been signed up by Flavio's lot) who promptly clattered into the back of the train.

I think he was the main driver to get singled out for silliness (allegedly).

I know this has been pulled up from way back but Im just catching up with this thread I seem to have forgotten about.

is this the incident you are referring too ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBreppfRrSc

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by marcus

is this the incident you are referring too ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBreppfRrSc

Yes that looks like the one. Not as many nitwits steaming in from the rear as I recalled though? Still, I think a couple of careers practically concluded that day though, including Calcgani who was pretty highly rated iirc?

[chunterer]

Could we shortly be adding Vitantonio Liuzzi to this thread?

And how about Bruno Senna........

[Al Weyman]

Why Bruno Senna, didnt he get there by virtu of his name?

[Al Weyman]

Mind you in fairness to him he hasnt really had the car has he?

[ensign14]

And his GP2 record earned him a shot.

[chunterer]

I've put him in as a possible because it's likely that he won't be in F1 next year and that could be it for him as far as F1 is concerned.

So......

As is relative to the title of the thread, his lower series record would suggest that he is another example of a driver who wasn't able to achieve his potential.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by chunterer

I've put him in as a possible because it's likely that he won't be in F1 next year and that could be it for him as far as F1 is concerned.

So......

As is relative to the title of the thread, his lower series record would suggest that he is another example of a driver who wasn't able to achieve his potential.

Senna was always going to be at huge a disadvantage to his peers because of the lack of any karting experience. With that in mind, he's performed very well.

Back on topic though... I think we are likely to have a very large percentage of drivers from the classes of recent years joining the 'unfulfiled talents' pool because of the absence of any testing. More a waste of talent rather than talent unfulfilled.

[ensign14]

And a lack of space. Go back 20 years, a Trulli would have been moved out by now, and others would have been invalided out...

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by ensign14

And a lack of space. Go back 20 years, a Trulli would have been moved out by now, and others would have been invalided out...

Perversely, the testing ban has made the incumbents look a lot better and kept their positions secure. Even Michael Schumacher struggled because of it. Formula One does need to reconsider how to manage that ban.

[chunterer]

Well Bruno's had a reprieve so we have to scratch him from this list for the time being!!

Pantano's just crept into my head for some reason. Stellar in everything until F1 and even then probably didn't get the chance to show what he could do.

Can anyone recvall how he did in various other F1 tests he was given years back. IIRC he had runs in Benetton's and Williams'?

I guess he is a current version of Marco Apicella but then I still rate Marco as one of THE lost talents of the last 30 years.

[ensign14]

Marco Apicella = the shortest Grand Prix career of anyone who made the grid.

Has Geoff Lees been mentioned?

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by ensign14

Marco Apicella = the shortest Grand Prix career of anyone who made the grid.

Has Geoff Lees been mentioned?

A travesty when you think of all the other Italians who made it around the same period!!

Lees has been mentioned. However I would venture that had Thackwell not knobbled himself at Thruxton in 1981, he would've wiped the floor with all that season and Geoff wouldn't have got much of a look it.

[NotJiipee]

Well, this is a bit of a bump, but I scrolled through this thread and didn't see Mikko Kozarowitzky's name mentioned. Some, ahem, old-timers might remember him from the late 70s. He had been fighting in nearly equal pace with one Keke Rosberg through European single seaters, as well as the Tasman series. Now, I'm going off memory from a book I read a while ago, but I think Marlboro wanted a Finnish driver in F1. Rosberg, tied up in his contract, was unavailable, so they chose Kozarowitzky instead.

He got his chance for the RAM team in the 1977 British GP. However, team boss (whose name escapes me right now) anticipated that there might be rain coming, and ordered Mikko to drive flat out right from the start, which resulted in him crashing hard into the barriers, breaking his wrist. After that, they tried to persuade him to duct tape his wrist and go back out there, at which point "Kozarowitzky told what he thought about Mr. Team Boss what he thought about him, and promptly stormed off". An interesting story, because Kozarowitzky's name is often (nearly always) forgotten whenever Finnish F1 history comes up.

After hearing what happened, Rosberg considered himself "really lucky", because had he been in Europe at the time, his career would've likely followed that of Mikko's.

[W.A Trichlorostyrene]

Interesting thread TBH, well worth a bump.

I'm affraid we can soon add Robin Frijns to the list.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by W.A Trichlorostyrene

Interesting thread TBH, well worth a bump.

I'm afraid we can soon add Robin Frijns to the list.

Definitely!

JEV

Now Vandoorne and possibly even Ocon!!!

[ibsey]

I'd like to add Johnny Herbert. This blog http://www.1994f1.com/2018/11/30/joh...ton-b194-test/ makes you wonders what he might have achieved had he not had his F3000 shunt.

[Andy Clegg]

Johnny Herbert was quick from the start of his career. He was impressive all weekend at Brands. I was watching at the entry to Hawthorn bend on the outside of the circuit, so saw what happened.

[S griffin]

If only Herbert hadn't had that accident, who knows what he would have achieved? Certainly three GP wins were no indication of what should have been

[Aysedasi]

I was there too, although I was just out of sight of the accident. It was the first time I had taken my wife motor racing and I pranged my MGB on the way there. An eventful day.....

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I was there too, although I was just out of sight of the accident. It was the first time I had taken my wife motor racing and I pranged my MGB on the way there. An eventful day.....

Crikey what an awful day!!!

No doubt at all in my mind how good Johnny was, for the guy to be competitive against the best and win three F1 races with the hindrances he later had with his feet/ankles is remarkable.

Flavio to me always seemed about the 'now' and didn't look very long term regarding drivers.

I feel pretty much the same about Donnelly as I do about Herbert. Those two were the stand out drivers from UK/Ire at a time when the depth in abilities in junior single seaters was arguably greater than it is today.

Damon Hill has often said that he felt privileged to have raced against these two, whom he felt were top drawer.

[S griffin]

I think Damon said Martin was the toughest team mate he ever raced against, or something along those lines

[Nononsensecapeesh]

"Grand Prix Rejects » 2001 British Formula Three – A Reject Odyssey" https://gprejects.com/gravel-trap/20...reject-odyssey - Anyone here who could have gone on to bigger things but didn't?

[BTCC frog]

In recent years, I would suggest Stoffel Vandoorne has to be the most obvious pick. After his domination of GP2 in 2015 and his excellent points finish in Bahrain 2016, he was tipped by so many as a potential champion, and potential challenger of Alonso in his first season. Sadly, it never worked out, and he lost his drive after two seasons. Pascal Wehrlein is perhaps even more of an unfulfilled talent. I don't know how close he came to replacing Rosberg at Mercedes in 2017 but he was the one I thought would get the drive before Bottas took it, and instead he drove one more uninspiring year at Sauber before dropping out of Formula 1. Giovinazzi would be another I would include, as his GP2 teammate and rival now looks to be one of the top drivers in Formula 1, while he is set to drop out after three disappointing seasons. It is currently too early to say, of course, but I wonder if in the future Yuki Tsunoda will be a name to be added to this list. Branded 'the best rookie for years' by Ross Brawn after Bahrain (and Russell, Norris and Leclerc were all rookies only a few years ago), but so far he has had a horrible time and has been totally outpaced by Gasly. He may still fulfil his talent, but I doubt it.

[Nononsensecapeesh]

Davide Valsecchi and Fabio Leimer.