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Old 23 Nov 2015, 12:40 (Ref:3592665)   #1
Spyderman
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Spyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Porsche Confirms New 911 RSR GTE Car for 2017

It looks like Porsche are going down the BMW route. Not good.
http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/p...-car-for-2017/
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Old 23 Nov 2015, 12:44 (Ref:3592667)   #2
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Lot's of ifs, buts and maybes in there!

How do you move a flat six forward a bit? Sounds like an odd solution.
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Old 23 Nov 2015, 12:56 (Ref:3592672)   #3
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They have done it before (GT1)
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Old 23 Nov 2015, 13:25 (Ref:3592678)   #4
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The GT1 was a mid-engined Frankenstein's monster made from bits of old Porsches that were lying around. I'm not sure this is really the same situation.
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Old 23 Nov 2015, 13:28 (Ref:3592680)   #5
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They could just build off the Cayman platform and avoid the waivers but that would booger the hierarchy of 911 at the top.
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Old 23 Nov 2015, 13:53 (Ref:3592691)   #6
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The GT1 was a mid-engined Frankenstein's monster made from bits of old Porsches that were lying around. I'm not sure this is really the same situation.
No , not the same, but I'm sure that some of the lessons learnt will be applied. This assuming that it will in fact be mid-engine.
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Old 23 Nov 2015, 13:56 (Ref:3592693)   #7
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They could just build off the Cayman platform and avoid the waivers but that would booger the hierarchy of 911 at the top.
The "untouchable" status of the 911 also apparently killed off the bespoke mid-engine car, which I'm sure , would have been a far better option (for racing) as it could have had a platform designed specifically for it's engine placement, rather than a modified MMB platform.
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Old 23 Nov 2015, 14:10 (Ref:3592698)   #8
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Porsche are the Kings of the Kansas City Shuffle... until the car is actually on the ground, I would wait to come to any conclusions... it isn't as if Porsche hasn't completely tried to mislead everyone before.
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Old 23 Nov 2015, 16:50 (Ref:3592721)   #9
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The "untouchable" status of the 911 also apparently killed off the bespoke mid-engine car, which I'm sure , would have been a far better option (for racing) as it could have had a platform designed specifically for it's engine placement, rather than a modified MMB platform.
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They could just build off the Cayman platform and avoid the waivers but that would booger the hierarchy of 911 at the top.
That is somewhat my reading on this as well. I LOVE Porsche and am a HUGE fan, but they have to move beyond the insecurity of racing something other than the 911 in top level GT. Are you listening Porsche! Have some self confidence!? You just won the WEC for heaven's sake!

It sounds like an attempt at GT1 style mid-engine "911". I assume this is 100% a marketing driven decision. They are fooling nobody. Or at least anyone who would buy a 911 because it races in top level GTE... they would understand what is going on.

Frankly I hope the other manufactures make a stink.

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Old 23 Nov 2015, 16:58 (Ref:3592725)   #10
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This is what should be the basis for the next Porsche GTE car...

http://blog.caranddriver.com/2016-po...-track-weapon/

That Cayman GT4 Clubsport... I would sell my soul to have that car

Or... if they don't want to push the Cayman to the top level, then bring out a direct competitor to the Ferrari 488 as has been rumoured for so long. I have to wonder if the entire VW diesel emission debacle (which Porsche has been pulled into a bit) is part of the reason Porsche is not taking on the Ferrari 488 directly. Effectively maybe a money thing?

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Old 23 Nov 2015, 21:51 (Ref:3592786)   #11
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Looks like they'll remain with inferior car and will take the route of crying BOP instead. Pretty disappointed with Porsche.

The 911 is currently the car with the least potential in GTE, because of the engine. Not only it's theoretically the weakest (lowest displacement, for starters), but it also still has a poor placement despite Porsche having moved the engine a bit forward in the 991 road car to improve handling and stability.

If they use the Carrera engine they'll still be handicapped by the engine because it's only 3.0L turbo while the next competitor is the Ford GT with a 3.5L but the GT is a far more advanced car than the 991.

If I were Porsche my first choice would be the mid-engine flat-8 car, but if I had to use a 911, I'd make a road 991 GT2 with a 3.8L flat-6 engine and base the GTE car around that. It would be a lot better alternative than homologating the Carrera.
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Old 23 Nov 2015, 22:24 (Ref:3592802)   #12
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No need to cry BOP surely? Wouldn't it just happen automatically? I'd keep it as it is, BOP makes it competitive in the dry and trounce everyone when it rains

This is why I don't 'get' the Ford GT. All that effort will just be removed by BOP. Am I missing something about GTE? (Genuine question)
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Old 23 Nov 2015, 22:29 (Ref:3592804)   #13
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We have yet to see how the 'new' bop works, but maybe it doesnt change. I was hoping for a 'baby 918'
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Old 23 Nov 2015, 22:32 (Ref:3592806)   #14
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It is pointless essentially.

And the last time Porsche had 911 that didn't rely mostly on BoP was probably circa 2011 with the cranky 997s getting beaten up. 2010 was already semi questionable pace wise despite the LM and Spa 24 wins
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Old 23 Nov 2015, 23:00 (Ref:3592814)   #15
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No need to cry BOP surely? Wouldn't it just happen automatically? I'd keep it as it is, BOP makes it competitive in the dry and trounce everyone when it rains

This is why I don't 'get' the Ford GT. All that effort will just be removed by BOP. Am I missing something about GTE? (Genuine question)
In one way you are right. BOP is just a fact of life within GTE. So you don't have to have a 100% optimal solution. Bring a car and BOP it in the direction it needs (up or down). You could in fact even do as you suggest which is have an advantage in one area (better rear traction) and then BOP takes care of the rest.

What i think is right about something such as the Ford GT or the Ferrari 488, is that you start from a more ideal solution and then BOP balances overall performance, but hopefully part of that allows you to make the rest of the car overall easier to manage (be it easier to drive, easier to setup, less stress on the hardware, or whatever). In effect, it's maybe easier to slow a car down than to speed it up.

If we have to live with BOP (and we seems like we do), I would rather manufactures start with the best they can deliver (within reason and cost) and then BOP ensures (sadly) that it is a "good show".

Richard
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