Home Mobile Forum News Cookbook FaceBook Us T-Shirts etc.: Europe/Worldwide. eBay Motorsport Links Advertising Live Chat  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Saloon & Sportscar Racing > Sportscar & GT Racing > ACO Regulated Series


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 1 Sep 2017, 20:00 (Ref:3763527)   #5116
AoB Special Stage
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Estonia
Posts: 906
AoB Special Stage should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridAoB Special Stage should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by TF110 View Post
Seems Wirth is no longer affiliated with Honda/Acura. So they're looking for a new partnership.
They are/were HPD's IndyCar aerokit partner and HPD remains listed among the clients on their website.

Which has reminded me that Alpine suggested they'd have a car that competed for overall wins in the next few years. Guess who else is listed on Wirth's clients list? Renault Sport. Why I had to write it in that style, I do not know.
AoB Special Stage is offline  
__________________
. . . but I'm not a traditionalist so maybe my opinion doesn't count! -TF110
Quote
Old 1 Sep 2017, 20:02 (Ref:3763528)   #5117
Akrapovic
Veteran
 
Akrapovic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Scotland
Posts: 6,067
Akrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by AoB Special Stage View Post
They are/were HPD's IndyCar aerokit partner and HPD remains listed among the clients on their website.

Which has reminded me that Alpine suggested they'd have a car that competed for overall wins in the next few years. Guess who else is listed on Wirth's clients list? Renault Sport. Why I had to write it in that style, I do not know.


I'd like to see Alpine do something that isn't stick a chassis plate to an Oreca. That'd be a nice LMP1-P. But at this rate we'll have 25 LMP1-P cars confirmed for next year, and then a single ByKolles will show up.
Akrapovic is online now  
Quote
Old 1 Sep 2017, 20:42 (Ref:3763539)   #5118
AoB Special Stage
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Estonia
Posts: 906
AoB Special Stage should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridAoB Special Stage should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
You're probably not wrong. But P1 looks less dead than a few weeks ago, indeed. If someone could find that quote from Alpine, please: I failed.
AoB Special Stage is offline  
__________________
. . . but I'm not a traditionalist so maybe my opinion doesn't count! -TF110
Quote
Old 1 Sep 2017, 22:02 (Ref:3763584)   #5119
carbsmith
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,000
carbsmith has a real shot at the podium!carbsmith has a real shot at the podium!carbsmith has a real shot at the podium!carbsmith has a real shot at the podium!carbsmith has a real shot at the podium!
Wirth isn't for next year, and Alpine can be in the current LMP1-P if they only badge the engine.

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2017/0...or-201819.html
carbsmith is offline  
Quote
Old 1 Sep 2017, 22:08 (Ref:3763589)   #5120
chernaudi
Veteran
 
chernaudi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
United States
Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 7,809
chernaudi has a real shot at the podium!chernaudi has a real shot at the podium!chernaudi has a real shot at the podium!chernaudi has a real shot at the podium!chernaudi has a real shot at the podium!
Now the ACO have come to their senses and are doing what they should've done (and reportedly originally said they were going to do) in 2014:

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/f...ons-from-2018/

That might have reduced budgets as far as hybrid and engine tech and been more privateer friendly.
chernaudi is offline  
Quote
Old 1 Sep 2017, 23:58 (Ref:3763617)   #5121
YZFrider
Racer
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location:
Bay Area, CA
Posts: 249
YZFrider should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridYZFrider should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Here is my take on the whole balancing of non hybrid with hybrid. As we saw with hybrid it's recovering wasted energy and turning back into either more speed on the same fuel burned or to go longer stints with the same speed. Even if the non hybrids had 24 hour-reliable 800-900 horsepower engines they are going to be gulping more fuel to make that horsepower. That's more refueling stops.. Some might say give them massive fuel tanks. Ok you but then they are saddled with a burdensome weight.... fuel is heavy! The challenge of balancing is enormous...maybe futile?
YZFrider is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Sep 2017, 00:05 (Ref:3763619)   #5122
AoB Special Stage
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Estonia
Posts: 906
AoB Special Stage should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridAoB Special Stage should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I always wished they'd let the efficiency advantage be the advantage of the hybrids instead of the hideously complicated incentive they'd come up with.
AoB Special Stage is offline  
__________________
. . . but I'm not a traditionalist so maybe my opinion doesn't count! -TF110
Quote
Old 2 Sep 2017, 00:06 (Ref:3763620)   #5123
chernaudi
Veteran
 
chernaudi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
United States
Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 7,809
chernaudi has a real shot at the podium!chernaudi has a real shot at the podium!chernaudi has a real shot at the podium!chernaudi has a real shot at the podium!chernaudi has a real shot at the podium!
Personally, I think that these cars should never have been more complex than the 2003 Bentley Speed 8 or a 2011-13 Audi R18 with a gasoline engine and a small hybrid system.

Or, if you prefer, a DPI car with more development freedom, no spec chassis, and the ability to run a 2-3.5MJ hybrid if one wanted to primarily as a range extender rather than a go faster button.

Also, such cars could be run by privateers fairly easily and even factory teams for pennies on the dollar.
chernaudi is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Sep 2017, 00:26 (Ref:3763621)   #5124
carbsmith
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,000
carbsmith has a real shot at the podium!carbsmith has a real shot at the podium!carbsmith has a real shot at the podium!carbsmith has a real shot at the podium!carbsmith has a real shot at the podium!
Dangerously high levels of old man telling people to get off his lawn.
carbsmith is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Sep 2017, 00:33 (Ref:3763624)   #5125
TF110
Veteran
 
TF110's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
United States
Posts: 13,844
TF110 is going for a new lap record!TF110 is going for a new lap record!TF110 is going for a new lap record!TF110 is going for a new lap record!TF110 is going for a new lap record!TF110 is going for a new lap record!
Just as I thought. Sensible regs imo. Keeping hybrids to make those types of manufacturers interested, but allowing non-hybrid manufacturers in the factory class as well and it's all under one class. No subclasses, you run what you brung. There's nothing stopping DPi from joining in if the rules go as they look. But it's on them to make a powerful engine and fast car.
TF110 is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Sep 2017, 00:45 (Ref:3763625)   #5126
chernaudi
Veteran
 
chernaudi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
United States
Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 7,809
chernaudi has a real shot at the podium!chernaudi has a real shot at the podium!chernaudi has a real shot at the podium!chernaudi has a real shot at the podium!chernaudi has a real shot at the podium!
A DPI or privateer LMP1 is no more complex than an Audi R18 from 2011-13 (if it had a gasoline engine) or the old '03 Bentley. If they ran the old R8's engine in the R18, it wouldn't be that much more expensive or complex than the R8 was. Only difference is things that are now common place (a roof, torsion bar suspension--no real advantage over coilovers other than packaging--integrated bodywork and monocoque).

Best thing going forward is no more ERS incentive that partly drove the whole rush for powerful hybrids and smaller but more powerful engines.

These rules and possibly the 2020 rules were just poorly executed and the ACO lacked the more moderate approach that they should've done from the start. IMO, just a mea culpa that they executed things badly.
chernaudi is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Sep 2017, 01:30 (Ref:3763635)   #5127
chernaudi
Veteran
 
chernaudi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
United States
Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 7,809
chernaudi has a real shot at the podium!chernaudi has a real shot at the podium!chernaudi has a real shot at the podium!chernaudi has a real shot at the podium!chernaudi has a real shot at the podium!
And, overall, it's just a sign that the ACO were living beyond their means for a while. And they're certainly not alone in that regard. Look at NASCAR and the surge of young guys coming in. A lot of that is due to salaries and sponsorship income right-sizing and getting back to "normal" levels. Sponsors aren't willing to chuck out the $20-30 million they were, and the young guys are willing to race for cheaper salaries than the established drivers.

This is just another example of things going that way in the road racing world. DPI is a sign of that. Interest of teams in LMP2 was a sign of that. My and others interest in LMP1 not being so dependent on new--and expensive to develop--technology is a sign of that.
chernaudi is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Sep 2017, 02:11 (Ref:3763639)   #5128
TF110
Veteran
 
TF110's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
United States
Posts: 13,844
TF110 is going for a new lap record!TF110 is going for a new lap record!TF110 is going for a new lap record!TF110 is going for a new lap record!TF110 is going for a new lap record!TF110 is going for a new lap record!
Can't blame the ACO for two teams spending more than everyone else was comfortable with. Streamlining the schedule is just another way to reduce costs but this time it's something they can help with.
TF110 is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Sep 2017, 03:15 (Ref:3763658)   #5129
chernaudi
Veteran
 
chernaudi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
United States
Mansfield, Ohio
Posts: 7,809
chernaudi has a real shot at the podium!chernaudi has a real shot at the podium!chernaudi has a real shot at the podium!chernaudi has a real shot at the podium!chernaudi has a real shot at the podium!
Why do you keep defending Toyota and going off on VAG? If Toyota didn't get bit in F1 they'd probably be spending well over $100 million a year, and we know even now they're capable of it.

If you want to blame VAG, you're also going to have to blame Toyota for being equally as gung-ho on hybrids and other expensive technology (no hybrids, no Toyota in the WEC and LM). Even the stuff on the TS050's engine probably has little production relevance and probably is also insanely expensive.

I don't see anyone lining up to spend what Toyota are alleged to be spending, which has variously been reported to be $75-100 million dollars this season.

Bash VAG all you want. Toyota have also been part of the problem on the budget front by spending multitudes more than anyone else aside from Audi Sport and Porsche did. The ACO screwed up with their "go big or go home" attitude towards hybrids and other "green image" technology at the expense of what made sense.

Again. Don't ask why VAG are gone and why Toyota might very well be gone soon. Ask why no one else came in? In this thread, I think that Akrapovic several times hit the nail on the head and back up points I already made many times.

Namely that you have a technology still new to motorsport, it was given an (IMO, unnecessarily huge) huge advantage, with huge performance incentives. And everyone wanted to get as close to the top as they could. That takes money and resources to get there fast.

No matter how you slice it, the ACO were sowing the seeds of their own destruction right there.
chernaudi is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Sep 2017, 03:22 (Ref:3763661)   #5130
carbsmith
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,000
carbsmith has a real shot at the podium!carbsmith has a real shot at the podium!carbsmith has a real shot at the podium!carbsmith has a real shot at the podium!carbsmith has a real shot at the podium!
Toyota's budget started at $50m. I don't think Nissan's was supposed to be horrendously lower than that.
carbsmith is offline  
Quote
Reply

Bookmarks




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
ACO Publish 2010 Le Mans Regulations Gingers4Justice ACO Regulated Series 88 10 Dec 2009 03:41
[LM24] Whats the future of LMP's at Le Mans?? Garrett 24 Heures du Mans 59 8 Jul 2004 15:15
[LM24] 2004 Le Mans Rules pirenzo 24 Heures du Mans 6 16 Dec 2002 18:35
[LM24] No Lister LMP 900 for Le Mans. pink69 24 Heures du Mans 1 30 Nov 2001 12:17
[LM24] Entry Rules for le Mans? Liz 24 Heures du Mans 5 5 Nov 2000 22:41


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 11:25.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2018 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.