Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Single Seater Racing > Formula One

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 8 Oct 2019, 10:39 (Ref:3932660)   #1
Casper
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,211
Casper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridCasper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
F1 Is the Epitome of Mechanical Engineering..Or Not?

Taking the premise of F1 being the epitome of mechanical engineering and leading the world in advancing automotive engineering with all this feeding down into road cars I would suggest that maybe it is not. If it was wouldn't the category be fully electric and leading the world in finding new ways to improve all electric cars.

This is not a thread to say you don't like watching electric cars race, you wouldn't own one in two million years, electric cars are a passing fad, you will commit suicide if F1 ever goes electric etc. The discussion here is that everyone holds up F1 for its technical expertise so why is it stuffing around with hybrids? Perhaps it needs to as the energy source batteries are not a mature and race ready just yet. It also could be that when the current engine regs were formulated the electric car was not seen in the way it is today.
Casper is offline  
Quote
Old 8 Oct 2019, 10:51 (Ref:3932663)   #2
S griffin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 18,330
S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!
I have to say I do miss having mechanical innovation in the sport. Nowadays it seems to be all aero. Mechanical technology is always more interesting for me
S griffin is online now  
__________________
He who dares wins!
He who hesitates is lost!
Quote
Old 8 Oct 2019, 10:58 (Ref:3932667)   #3
wnut
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,088
wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!
F1 is merely design and construction of a car within a set of rules, it is just finessing, the pinnacle of nothing. Road cars are ahead of F1 in pure technology terms.

Space exploration and military jets would be examples of more open fields in mechanical engineering with what is possible as the only limit, and they are subject to budgets.
wnut is offline  
Quote
Old 8 Oct 2019, 10:59 (Ref:3932668)   #4
crmalcolm
Subscriber
Veteran
 
crmalcolm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Nepal
Exactly where I need to be.
Posts: 12,292
crmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper View Post
Taking the premise of F1 being the epitome of mechanical engineering and leading the world in advancing automotive engineering with all this feeding down into road cars I would suggest that maybe it is not. If it was wouldn't the category be fully electric and leading the world in finding new ways to improve all electric cars.

This is not a thread to say you don't like watching electric cars race, you wouldn't own one in two million years, electric cars are a passing fad, you will commit suicide if F1 ever goes electric etc. The discussion here is that everyone holds up F1 for its technical expertise so why is it stuffing around with hybrids? Perhaps it needs to as the energy source batteries are not a mature and race ready just yet. It also could be that when the current engine regs were formulated the electric car was not seen in the way it is today.
Is this not asking the same question as - 'Why does F1 Need a Bespoke Power Unit' in a different format? Also - when has F1 been the epitome of mechanical engineering?

It may be the epitome of any engineering related to a Single-Seater Formula, and that will go beyond mechanical. Currently the Formula that they race to prescribes a Hybrid PU - and the engineering is the epitome of work in that field. I fear that this thread may be too focused, and is looking at F1 through the narrow lens of Power Unit only, without understanding the wider context of the sport?
crmalcolm is offline  
__________________
"When you’re just too socially awkward for real life, Ten-Tenths welcomes you with open arms. Everyone has me figured out, which makes it super easy for me."
Quote
Old 9 Oct 2019, 05:18 (Ref:3932839)   #5
Casper
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,211
Casper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridCasper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
Is this not asking the same question as - 'Why does F1 Need a Bespoke Power Unit' in a different format? Also - when has F1 been the epitome of mechanical engineering?

It may be the epitome of any engineering related to a Single-Seater Formula, and that will go beyond mechanical. Currently the Formula that they race to prescribes a Hybrid PU - and the engineering is the epitome of work in that field. I fear that this thread may be too focused, and is looking at F1 through the narrow lens of Power Unit only, without understanding the wider context of the sport?
I don't intend it to be that at all, I intended it to be an extension of the discussion that Abiteboul started in the last week or so. I myself think the discussion around F1 needs to be broadened a bit away from all the doom and gloom and make it a bit more interesting. There are those and Joe Saward is definitely one who take the view that F1 is everything to cars and everything good comes from it. I don't agree with that but it seems to be a wide spread POV.
Casper is offline  
Quote
Old 9 Oct 2019, 11:05 (Ref:3932894)   #6
Richard C
Veteran
 
Richard C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,803
Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnut View Post
F1 is merely design and construction of a car within a set of rules, it is just finessing, the pinnacle of nothing. Road cars are ahead of F1 in pure technology terms.

Space exploration and military jets would be examples of more open fields in mechanical engineering with what is possible as the only limit, and they are subject to budgets.
Agree. I dont think I have more to add.

Richard
Richard C is offline  
__________________
To paraphrase Mark Twain... "I'm sorry I wrote such a long post; I didn't have time to write a short one."
Quote
Old 9 Oct 2019, 11:10 (Ref:3932895)   #7
steve_r
Veteran
 
steve_r's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Lord Howe Island
European Capital of Culture 2008
Posts: 3,519
steve_r is going for a new world record!steve_r is going for a new world record!steve_r is going for a new world record!steve_r is going for a new world record!steve_r is going for a new world record!steve_r is going for a new world record!steve_r is going for a new world record!
To me F1 is about discovering which is the best driver / car combination in the world.

As long as the cars are designed under a set of controlling regulations, no racing series in the world is ever going to be "The Epitome of Mechanical Engineering". The nearest thing I can think of in terms of motorsport would be a land speed record attempt.
steve_r is offline  
__________________
It's just my opinion.
Quote
Old 10 Oct 2019, 03:03 (Ref:3933031)   #8
Casper
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,211
Casper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridCasper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I think that F1 is far from the epitome of anything except spending money but others strongly disagree with that. In the past F1 was held up as being the leader in technology for some fairly good reasons and anyone who drove a road car in those times would most probably agree. Now road cars are so far ahead it is daylight in second place. Abiteboul certainly thinks it should be at least in the same place as road cars for some reason.
Casper is offline  
Quote
Old 10 Oct 2019, 08:18 (Ref:3933070)   #9
P38 in workshop
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 804
P38 in workshop has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
I would agree that F1 has some good engineering in a lot of areas but with the current restrictive rules it seems harder to innovate and push the boundaries.The Bloodhound project probably has more of a pioneering element but seems to have been going on forever without achieving it's stated aim.I think it could be argued that the hybrid LMP1's were more advanced in several areas.
P38 in workshop is offline  
Quote
Old 10 Oct 2019, 08:30 (Ref:3933072)   #10
crmalcolm
Subscriber
Veteran
 
crmalcolm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Nepal
Exactly where I need to be.
Posts: 12,292
crmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper View Post
I think that F1 is far from the epitome of anything except spending money but others strongly disagree with that. In the past F1 was held up as being the leader in technology for some fairly good reasons and anyone who drove a road car in those times would most probably agree. Now road cars are so far ahead it is daylight in second place. Abiteboul certainly thinks it should be at least in the same place as road cars for some reason.
All I can see from Abiteboul lately concentrates on the PU - and seems to be addressing the question of why does F1 run the PU it currently does?

Sadly, he seems to be giving no solution other than 'spend more on the electric part of the PU'. I'm unsure whether he is adding anything to the dilemma at the moment, aside from just stating that (in his opinion) F1 has focussed on the wrong areas for development.
crmalcolm is offline  
__________________
"When you’re just too socially awkward for real life, Ten-Tenths welcomes you with open arms. Everyone has me figured out, which makes it super easy for me."
Quote
Old 10 Oct 2019, 22:50 (Ref:3933196)   #11
ggreen29
Racer
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location:
S. California, USA
Posts: 118
ggreen29 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
It is the epitome of modern road racing, being the fastest cars out there.

FIA say the current engine formula is "the cutting edge of automotive technology development," though in the same sentence they say "while at the same time preserving the culture of innovation..." If innovation means aerodynamics within a strictly structured regime then they're right. Or perhaps they don't mean either one.

And no, electric is not the epitome of mechanical or automotive engineering, at least not in racing. Formula E has proven that with cars unable to go race distance and 'refueling' taking so long it's easier to replace the car than to refuel it.
ggreen29 is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2019, 10:05 (Ref:3933248)   #12
Greem
Veteran
 
Greem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
United Kingdom
Posts: 5,067
Greem is the undisputed Champion of the World!Greem is the undisputed Champion of the World!Greem is the undisputed Champion of the World!Greem is the undisputed Champion of the World!Greem is the undisputed Champion of the World!Greem is the undisputed Champion of the World!Greem is the undisputed Champion of the World!Greem is the undisputed Champion of the World!Greem is the undisputed Champion of the World!Greem is the undisputed Champion of the World!Greem is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ggreen29 View Post
It is the epitome of modern road racing, being the fastest cars out there.

FIA say the current engine formula is "the cutting edge of automotive technology development," though in the same sentence they say "while at the same time preserving the culture of innovation..." If innovation means aerodynamics within a strictly structured regime then they're right. Or perhaps they don't mean either one.

And no, electric is not the epitome of mechanical or automotive engineering, at least not in racing. Formula E has proven that with cars unable to go race distance and 'refueling' taking so long it's easier to replace the car than to refuel it.
Clearly you haven't watched Formula E since they stopped changing cars mid race, last December.

I neither agree nor disagree that electric is the future but it does get my goat a bit when motorsport enthusiasts don't bother to keep up with fundamental changes to rulesets, especially when (as with FE) they were outlined in the original development plan before season 1 took place.
Greem is online now  
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2019, 10:14 (Ref:3933249)   #13
Akrapovic
Veteran
 
Akrapovic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Scotland
Posts: 10,912
Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ggreen29 View Post
And no, electric is not the epitome of mechanical or automotive engineering
"Electric is not the epitome of mechanical engineering" is a bizarre statement. It's the epitome of...electrical engineering.

Mechanical engineering isn't the epitome of electrical engineering either. Or cooking for that matter.

Edit to fix closing quotes.

Last edited by Akrapovic; 11 Oct 2019 at 10:42.
Akrapovic is online now  
Quote
Old 11 Oct 2019, 10:18 (Ref:3933250)   #14
crmalcolm
Subscriber
Veteran
 
crmalcolm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Nepal
Exactly where I need to be.
Posts: 12,292
crmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famecrmalcolm will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akrapovic View Post
"Electric is not the epitome of mechanical engineering is a bizarre statement. It's the epitome of...electrical engineering.

Mechanical engineering isn't the epitome of electrical engineering either. Or cooking for that matter.
But what I think is certain is:

F1 is the epitome of F1 engineering.
crmalcolm is offline  
__________________
"When you’re just too socially awkward for real life, Ten-Tenths welcomes you with open arms. Everyone has me figured out, which makes it super easy for me."
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mechanical Sympathy FalconEL Australasian Touring Cars. 19 4 Jul 2003 23:28
Lack of Mechanical Failures Spudgun Formula One 14 11 Mar 2003 18:59
Can a driving style cause mechanical failures nowadays? Yoong Montoya Formula One 26 2 Jul 2002 08:22
F1 power steering, mechanical vs electronic djb Racing Technology 8 20 Sep 2001 12:26


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:12.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.