[WEC] LMP Future Regulations (was Le Mans EVO rules - now hypercar rules)

[Mike E]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

LMP2 will be BoP'd when the next generation is not equal.

Probably true. And with spec engines and tyres, it will be easy to adjust minimum weights or rev limits per chassis with few other inconvenient variables.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by Mike E

Probably true. And with spec engines and tyres, it will be easy to adjust minimum weights or rev limits per chassis with few other inconvenient variables.

am not so sure bop would balance the performances of the lmp2 cars if in future, just like now, one manufacturer releases a basically perfect car, while the others barely can make a decent one...


oreca 07 is basically perfect! great aero/chassis, great aero efficiency on both HD/LD packages and works great with both michelin and dunlop.

Riley/multimatic is a joke... infinite drag despite poor aero; dallara lmp2 is insanely hard to make it work in its best window and in low drag design loves to get airborne. Ligier lmp2 is a reasonable good car but terribly unbalanced... in HD bodywork has a great aero but it's too draggy, in LD bodywork has a good top speed and basically nothing else....

how bop should balance this?

[S griffin]

BoP should be used very carefully if at all. The problem is the cream will always rise to the top. You can’t fault ORECA for doing a better job, they have made the most of it. The others need to put their fingers out and sort their problems out. Ligier for example have so much potential, but no substance. They need to sort their car out so it works well with both HD and LD

[S griffin]

I think BoP should be avoided in LMPs. It’s supposed to be about the best. Why change that? It’s supposed to be about engineering excellence. Let’s encourage more to build cars up to their best

[Dyson Mazda]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I think BoP should be avoided in LMPs. It’s supposed to be about the best. Why change that? It’s supposed to be about engineering excellence. Let’s encourage more to build cars up to their best

Why change that? Have you seen what current LMP1 has deteriorated to?

[TF110]

I wish bop didn't exist either but they are going to use it to keep everyone happy. I would like a set spec. Say 950kg, 800hp. Hybrids get 800hp but max 175hp from electric, a smaller tank etc. If they want it to be fair without having to go into the tiniest things the big stuff like that is easy to do imo. That way there is some room for the teams to get a leg up by making a better car instead of relying on the series to give them a handout.

[hondafan37]

I can't understand why there is so much fanaticism in this forum for a spec category like LMP2. To all of us who like sports cars, we love the variety of different things, I can't understand so much fanaticism for the same things.
V12, V8, V6 Turbo, front engine, half engine, those are sportscar racing, All of us here love that we don't accept a Spec series, the BOP is much better than a Spec series. ACO's current LMP2 series is the worst ever.
No more Spec series we do not allow that !!!

[TF110]

I shouldn't have said "set spec". What I meant is a set specification or rules for the cars in weight size power etc. But free to do it how they want without bop playing into it. I like the hypercar solution but not the fact of bop.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

I can't understand why there is so much fanaticism in this forum for a spec category like LMP2. To all of us who like sports cars, we love the variety of different things, I can't understand so much fanaticism for the same things.
V12, V8, V6 Turbo, front engine, half engine, those are sportscar racing, All of us here love that we don't accept a Spec series, the BOP is much better than a Spec series. ACO's current LMP2 series is the worst ever.
No more Spec series we do not allow that !!!

So much fanaticism for LMP2? Are we reading the same forum? Very few people speak positively of the current LMP2 situation.

LMP2 should go back to the previous ruleset, which produced good racing, for cheaper. The only thing they should do to that rule set is give them more power. That's the one good thing that came of the current LMP2 rules - the improved straight line speed means less issues with LMP2 and GTE cars.

[S griffin]

I can see LMP2 is struggling atm. It needs changes. They need to start sorting it out so it can be a great category again.

Maybe just check and see how much can be changed for the better. I wouldn't mind them having more power. I do think there are some positives and the current cars are good, but the ruleset needs a bit of tweaking here and there

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I can see LMP2 is struggling atm. It needs changes. They need to start sorting it out so it can be a great category again.

For the ACO, Oreca and the teams it is a great category right now - the numbers are really good and teams that buy an Oreca can be assured that they'll win and lose exclusively at their own merit. It's really only the pesky fans that are unhappy.

Personally, I would love for the ACO to have one category where not even customer cars would be allowed, but every team had to built their own chassis, but why would that be attractive for the teams or the ACO?

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

So much fanaticism for LMP2? Are we reading the same forum? Very few people speak positively of the current LMP2 situation.

LMP2 should go back to the previous ruleset, which produced good racing, for cheaper. The only thing they should do to that rule set is give them more power. That's the one good thing that came of the current LMP2 rules - the improved straight line speed means less issues with LMP2 and GTE cars.

Yes, we are reading the same forum. Any interesting publication about Hypercars or GTE takes days to get a reply and sometimes there is no reply and LMP2 gets 5 or 6 replies in hours. All the time there is a great concern about the speed difference between LMP2 and GTE, and that shouldn't bother us, it should be a problem for the drivers but not for us, and also if the maneuver is more difficult it is better for the races because it sure provides more emotion.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

Yes, we are reading the same forum. Any interesting publication about Hypercars or GTE takes days to get a reply and sometimes there is no reply and LMP2 gets 5 or 6 replies in hours. All the time there is a great concern about the speed difference between LMP2 and GTE, and that shouldn't bother us, it should be a problem for the drivers but not for us, and also if the maneuver is more difficult it is better for the races because it sure provides more emotion.

That seems to be much more about you and your personal expectations.

Care to list any actual examples? I see as many comments about ACTUAL news for each, hypercar pie in the sky bs is NOT news. There is not much actual new information about hypercar and what has been released has been beaten to death. And most of the LMP2 discussion is bemoaning X, Y or Z factor of the cars NOT look at how great the cars are.

Seems to me more like you want to dictate the discussion and honestly, live in a fantasy world of unlimited funds. The sportscar world isn't even on most car manufacturers management, never mind their advertising guys. We get low budgets and nothing that can't be justified. There's little room for off the wall attempts and wasted money.

As for your closing speed example. That's NOT what draws many of us to racing. They are not cars meant to compete, the closing speed and cornering difference leads to bad attempts and forced moves, that's not sportscar racing. Or at least not as I remember it.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

Yes, we are reading the same forum. Any interesting publication about Hypercars or GTE takes days to get a reply and sometimes there is no reply and LMP2 gets 5 or 6 replies in hours. All the time there is a great concern about the speed difference between LMP2 and GTE, and that shouldn't bother us, it should be a problem for the drivers but not for us, and also if the maneuver is more difficult it is better for the races because it sure provides more emotion.

LMP2 gets more replies because it actually exists - Hypercar does not. And Hypercars regulations will have a knock on effect to LMP2. Talking about something doesn't mean being more excited about it.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

LMP2 gets more replies because it actually exists - Hypercar does not. And Hypercars regulations will have a knock on effect to LMP2. Talking about something doesn't mean being more excited about it.

Exactly, people talk about a orange haired air head but most aren't happy about him at all

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

That seems to be much more about you and your personal expectations.

Care to list any actual examples? I see as many comments about ACTUAL news for each, hypercar pie in the sky bs is NOT news. There is not much actual new information about hypercar and what has been released has been beaten to death. And most of the LMP2 discussion is bemoaning X, Y or Z factor of the cars NOT look at how great the cars are.

Seems to me more like you want to dictate the discussion and honestly, live in a fantasy world of unlimited funds. The sportscar world isn't even on most car manufacturers management, never mind their advertising guys. We get low budgets and nothing that can't be justified. There's little room for off the wall attempts and wasted money.

As for your closing speed example. That's NOT what draws many of us to racing. They are not cars meant to compete, the closing speed and cornering difference leads to bad attempts and forced moves, that's not sportscar racing. Or at least not as I remember it.

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

LMP2 gets more replies because it actually exists - Hypercar does not. And Hypercars regulations will have a knock on effect to LMP2. Talking about something doesn't mean being more excited about it.

I don't want to dictate the discussion, I just made a comment about LMP2 that I now understand was out of place, I did not intend to attack anyone in this forum. I apologize for these misplaced comments.
I understand that Hypercars still do not exist but the forums are here to discuss about rumors and things that could happen and also this is the Hypercars thread, there are other specific threads for LMP2.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Exactly, people talk about a orange haired air head but most aren't happy about him at all

You can only speak for yourself on that one, just like anyone else here, but can we try to keep the political talk out of these threads? It's off topic anyway and leads to more arguing than spec lmp2's and bop combined

lmp2 as it is, all Oreca, is far from ideal. I'm not sure if the future of the class is going to be any better either. The same 4 manufacturers, could probably end up with the same situation as today with one constructor getting it right while the others scratch their heads as to how they aren't as fast.

[Mike E]

Some more unintended consequences: GTE folds and is replaced by GT3, thus completing the IMSAfication of ACO racing.

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...d-lmdh-launch/

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Mike E

Some more unintended consequences: GTE folds and is replaced by GT3, thus completing the IMSAfication of ACO racing.

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...d-lmdh-launch/

I am not taking anything coming from Aston Martin as reliable in the coming time. This spiced with the journalist writing the piece, I do not see it as anything but speculation.

[Mike E]

Fair enough. Just stirring the pot!

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by Mike E

Some more unintended consequences: GTE folds and is replaced by GT3, thus completing the IMSAfication of ACO racing.

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...d-lmdh-launch/

Also from the Aston Martin press room: "LMDh 'compromising' global efforts to prevent the spread of coronavirus"

[broadrun96]

Well, that Aston Martin flag of mine might be retired for a minute. Can't believe this guy can be more insane than old GHC crying about the DBR9 not being fast enough when he chose crap tires and money over the Michelins against the Vettes. Wow, can't wait for Stroll to come in and throw the dude out on his ear, except I think he owns a portion of the company too.

[chernaudi]

If you mean Andy Palmer, it seems you're right. According to a poster in the AM Hypercar thread, Palmer was AM's 4th largest stakeholder prior to Stroll getting involved. I think that Mr. King also probably has an ownership stake.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Mike E

Some more unintended consequences: GTE folds and is replaced by GT3, thus completing the IMSAfication of ACO racing.



https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...d-lmdh-launch/

I don't think he is the first person to suggest the demise of gte racing, and to be fair, it appears to be fading by its own merits with or without an lmdh class.

A good quote from the article:

“The good thing for us is that our GT3 car is very similar to our GTE car. It’s almost interchangeable.”

I believe that is the same for Ferrari, while Porsche and BMW have very different gt3 machines. If Corvette made a gt3 of the new C8 the switch to gt3 is inevitable.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

If you mean Andy Palmer, it seems you're right. According to a poster in the AM Hypercar thread, Palmer was AM's 4th largest stakeholder prior to Stroll getting involved. I think that Mr. King also probably has an ownership stake.

That would be correct,I was thinking of Palmer there. I don't know if David King has any share of the company.