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Old 15 May 2018, 19:10 (Ref:3822672)   #2836
Mike Harte
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Originally Posted by bella View Post
i think if you ask pirelli they'd be too busy counting the increase in sales to notice. it's been well worth the investment for them, apparently.

Possibly, even maybe probably, that may be true. However, I was only considering the actual supply side to Grand Prix racing.



I don't think that you will find many people, whether they be the teams or just F1 followers, who have had many good words to say about them over the last 5 years or so. Unjustifiably so, IMHO, as they were only producing the products that the FIA and/or FOM told them to, and had to provide them to the teams with minimal testing, and most of that on cars that were no longer being raced.


I think that they got the short end of the stick!
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Old 15 May 2018, 19:17 (Ref:3822675)   #2837
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They certainly have benefited for being the sole supplier and have certainly done well to provide all the teams. I think their tyres have been good the last few seasons
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Old 16 May 2018, 08:29 (Ref:3822767)   #2838
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Michelin's bid was only half-hearted, and was dependant on F1 changing to 19 inch wheels.
Men are known to add an inch or two when talking about the size of their.....

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/11...ls-in-the-past




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Old 16 May 2018, 08:51 (Ref:3822771)   #2839
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I think Michelin could be back in the near future. And who knows what size tyres will be in the near future
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Old 16 May 2018, 11:18 (Ref:3822830)   #2840
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i don't think they will, unless there's a big shift in what f1 wants from the tyres, and it's something that's achievable for a relatively low amount of r&d money.

the conference call by the ceo is him setting out his negotiating stall to f1 - he knows the ball is in the fia's court and he has the upper hand (and all the other contract negotiation cliches). at this point nobody else is in a position to supply at the end of this season. you can talk in terms of what you'd like to see as much as you want, but that's the reality of the situation.

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I don't think that you will find many people, whether they be the teams or just F1 followers, who have had many good words to say about them over the last 5 years or so.
don't know about that. especially outside the little f1 bubble. the evidence for that is the sheep-like migration to pirelli in the lower series, both in bikes and cars. they'll grumble about the tyres being more expensive but they'll also not take a punt and risk trying something else. it must be good if the big boys use it, right?

i work in series with open tyre markets and really, it doesn't do anything for competition. everyone sticks with the main brand except the guys who are given tyres free from other manufacturers, and even when those work better and they're free to buy a set they still don't try them. just in case.
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Old 23 May 2018, 08:32 (Ref:3824144)   #2841
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Mercedes have asked the FiA to clarify if Ferrari are cheating.

The questions in writing were from Chris Jilbert, Head of Product Engineering Capability, Mercedes HPP Brixworth, in which he asked...


Chris Jilbert: "With the exception of transformer oils used within ERS cooling circuits, and hydraulic oils used for PU actuators (both of which should have zero consumption in operation), do all oils (and specifically, any oil used in the pressure charging system) used in the Power Unit need to comply with Article 20?"

Charlie Whiting: "All oils used in the engine must comply with Article 20 of the F1 Technical Regulations. The turbocharger is considered part of the engine."

Chris Jilbert: "If the answer to Q1 is 'yes', does it therefore follow that the combined oil consumption of all the Power Unit oils must respect the 0.6lts/100km limit referenced within TD/012-17?"

Charlie Whiting: "Yes."

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/m...ebate-1040317/


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Old 23 May 2018, 09:19 (Ref:3824155)   #2842
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I think that's a very bad move on Merc to check if Ferrari are cheating. But then it's not from the top staff.

Really I think these PUs cause more trouble than they are worth. I think they have had their day. I think Charlie is just doing his job though.
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Old 23 May 2018, 11:11 (Ref:3824181)   #2843
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Well their day may end in 2021, or maybe not.

More trouble than they are worth? From a rule clarification perspective? Is it different to J dampers, double diffusers, TC, mirrors, fuel tanks, f ducts, etc...
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Old 23 May 2018, 11:49 (Ref:3824189)   #2844
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I am not sure if they are worth hanging on to. Go back to simpler engines. They seem to not be worth it. But we all love bending the rules, like with the double diffuser or the silly little F Duct
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Old 23 May 2018, 12:27 (Ref:3824200)   #2845
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Mercedes have asked the FiA to clarify if Ferrari are cheating.

Except they haven't mentioned Ferrari - yet alone cheating. Clearly you are letting your agenda get in the way of the truth again!






The smoke seen during the Ferrari start-up (which is the connection the journalist makes) is caused by spent oil that has already been expelled from the engine accumulating under the rear light - so no performance gain.

It's a bit of a stretch to claim cheating at the moment - although there may be a case for the Ferrari PU not conforming to regulations.

Perhaps a more objective approach might be taken when it comes to Ferrari one day?
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Old 23 May 2018, 14:04 (Ref:3824212)   #2846
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Well thatís what I guessed, I think Merc are too classy for that. However it is clear the Ferrariís smoke needs looking at, as that it is an area of the rules that could be better looked into. It shows the problem with these PUs
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Old 23 May 2018, 15:33 (Ref:3824229)   #2847
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Well thatís what I guessed, I think Merc are too classy for that.


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Old 23 May 2018, 17:53 (Ref:3824259)   #2848
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Except they haven't mentioned Ferrari - yet alone cheating.
In the world of Twitter... wouldn't it be called... Subtweeting? Nobody is mentioned by name, but everyone also clearly understands who is specifically being called out.

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The smoke seen during the Ferrari start-up (which is the connection the journalist makes) is caused by spent oil that has already been expelled from the engine accumulating under the rear light - so no performance gain.
I assume you mean oil that accumulates under the "red light" at the start. Clearly the oil has to come from somewhere. And I expect it doesn't stop somehow working it's way into the engine as soon as the light goes out! I think questions about the Ferrari smoke cloud is fair game.

Frankly, I see nothing wrong with Mercedes asking for a clarification. I know nothing about this part of the request, but I find it interesting that the question included the exclusion of two types of oils from the clarification question.

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With the exception of transformer oils used within ERS cooling circuits, and hydraulic oils used for PU actuators (both of which should have zero consumption in operation)
If I wanted to put on my Tin foil hat, I would ask if the zero consumption of those are by "regulation" or just the fact that nobody expects those oils to be consumed? Who then might be burning hydraulic oil!

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Old 23 May 2018, 17:59 (Ref:3824262)   #2849
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Frankly, I see nothing wrong with Mercedes asking for a clarification. I know nothing about this part of the request, but I find it interesting that the question included the exclusion of two types of oils from the clarification question.
I agree, although there is a subtle difference which F1Guy is hoping nobody notices.

Mercedes are asking for clarification on the rule. They didn't ask clarification on what Ferrari are doing. The statement of "Mercedes have asked the FiA to clarify if Ferrari are cheating" is not only clickbait, it's actually completely incorrect - that's not what was asked at all.

You could have a situation where it is clarified, but the FIA are perfectly happy with Ferraris explination on why they are not violating that rule

Sorry, forgot to add -
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Old 23 May 2018, 18:15 (Ref:3824264)   #2850
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I think someone has stirred something up. Merc are right to clarify what Ferrari are doing. I donít know if it was a misleading headline, teams are always asking what is right or wrong
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