Can Alexander Albon survive at Red Bull?

[ASCII Man]

Considering Jos was still karting in the Netherlands in '85 as a 13 yr old, and Carlos Sr was rallying in Spain at the time, I doubt it.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by ASCII Man

1985?

2015

I was checking something else.

[RWill2073]

Red bulls focus on verstappen is going to hamper any driver in the other car. Not a minute and a half every race, but still... Maybe if you're going to design a car around max, you need to give the second driver longer to adjust and develop in the second car. That could have gone for gasly, too.

I still dont see it in albon, but I just got done watching the race and saw his post race I interview and he seemed like he just didn't know yet how to unlock or answer the questions yet. He's still new there, and probably needs through next year to have a chance to come to grips with experience, and a car designed for another driver. Same could have been said for gasly.

Albon had some more nice passes and attempts on the outside in places you dont always see, so good on him for that.

Whin Ricciardo was there, they were still giving him focus to match verstappen for the most part. So he had a fighting chance. He's also better than those that have tried to replace him, too. But red bull needs to focus on the second car more so they can put more pressure on mercedes. 2 vs 1 every race isn't a fair fight.

[sizzle]

Originally Posted by RWill2073

Albon had some more nice passes and attempts on the outside in places you dont always see, so good on him for that.

I think he is going to come a cropper more often than not with all the outside passing moves.
He is going to finish up in the weeds a lot.

[S griffin]

Another problem is the more he does the round the outside moves, the more wary other drivers will be of him trying to do that, so won't make it so easy in the future

[Greem]

Yeah, but they will get so wary of the Buffalo Girls move that he'll just bait & switch to the inside instead.

I think he's being quite clever there. I hope he is, anyway.

[Columbus]

Originally Posted by Columbus

With so many self-inflicted practice shunts and clumsy race collisions, can Alex Albon defy statistics and keep his seat at Red Bull?

Is another Gasly/Albon swap imminent?

Guess I know the answer to my own question now!

Gasly was the undisputed star of yesterday's Italian GP, keeping his cool under incredible pressure to pick up a second Monza win for Red Bull's B-team.

Albon lost his cool the moment the lights went out (twice!) and all he picked up was self-inflicted damage and unsafe driving penalties. Piloting the second best car on the grid, Albon finished behind both Williams (worst car on the grid) and couldn't get within half a second of George Russell's best lap. If Pierre Gasly made Christian Horner look stupid yesterday, Alexander Albon removed any doubt.

Maybe I should re-phrase my original question.....

Can Alex Albon defy statistics and keep his seat in Formula 1?

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by Columbus

Piloting the second best car on the grid,

That is an increasingly debateable statement. The Red Bull has looked horrible to drive all year - but has been quick in Max's hands. In Italy the Red Bull was most definitely not the second best car on the grid - arguably worse than the Mercedes, McLaren, Renault and Racing Point as a minimum, possible also worse than the Alpha Tauri.

In fact I'd be interested now to see how Max would get on in the Alpha Tauri - it looks a far more balanced car than the Red Bull. Gasly has looked pretty good all season in the Alpha Tauri - and we know Max is better than Gasly, so we can assume Max would out perform Gasly in that car. Makes you wonder if the junior team actually have the better car?

[gert]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

In Italy the Red Bull was most definitely not the second best car on the grid - arguably worse than the Mercedes, McLaren, and Racing Point

I agree with that. Not necessarily with all the other cars you put there.
But the Red Bull surely was not the 2nd best car last weekend.

Originally Posted by BertMk2

In fact I'd be interested now to see how Max would get on in the Alpha Tauri - it looks a far more balanced car than the Red Bull. Gasly has looked pretty good all season in the Alpha Tauri - and we know Max is better than Gasly, so we can assume Max would out perform Gasly in that car. Makes you wonder if the junior team actually have the better car?

That too is debatable. The Red Bull seems to be tricky to drive but that may well suit Verstappen's style and not Albon's and Gasly's.
If they all get a car that's nicely balanced and predictable, then maybe part of Verstappen's advantage over the other driver(s) disappears with it?



In fact I'd be interested now to see how Max would get on in the Alpha Tauri - it looks a far more balanced car than the Red Bull. Gasly has looked pretty good all season in the Alpha Tauri - and we know Max is better than Gasly, so we can assume Max would out perform Gasly in that car. Makes you wonder if the junior team actually have the better car?[/QUOTE]

[chillibowl]

Albon seemed pretty exhausted in the post race interviews.

Im just speculating as this is a pretty intense on the limit race, so i found myself wondering about Albon's conditioning.

Or is it more mental? back to back races, life in the (now partial) bubble...some drivers like Sainz and Norris seem to be thriving while drivers like Albon seem to have taken a step back from last season.

Strange year and maybe we need a different lens for driver evaluation.

[chunterer]

Albon had a mare of a race, sure but it wasn't that long ago he was challenginor a win!

Perhaps it's just RB aren't nailing set up and Max is overdriving to try and compete hence the odd spins.

I like gert's comments about the driver friendly Alpha Tauri. Maybe Albon might relish going back there if Gasly gets a reprieve.

[Tourer]

I think it would be a shame if Gasly was "promoted" back to Red Bull - he seemed like a rabbit in the headlights during his time there but looks much more at home and confident at Alpha T. The car is clearly good and close enough to the pace needed that standout results are possible - as we saw on Sunday.

As for Albon, a driver doesn't suddenly lose capability but confidence CAN be lost and at that point, the question is should the team address that and assist the driver or expect the driver to sort themselves out? Typical race team approach is to expect the driver to get themselves sorted but maybe it's time for RB to take a more proactive role and work with Alex (if they're not doing so already).

As we saw at Silverstone, he's plenty committed and not afraid to have a go but either there are engineering issues or confidence issues and those need to be worked on.

[S griffin]

Gasly is fine where he is. He shouldn’t have been put in the senior team when he did, with hindsight. Maybe he’s missing that final piece compared with other drivers, so it’s hard to see him fitting anywhere else. He seems to be in where he wants to be at Alpha Tauri in terms of what he needs within a team.

Albon is not without talent, but it hasn’t been an easy season for him or Red Bull for that matter. The whole team needs a bit more improvement, despite Max’s efforts so far. Albon has earned his place in F1 and it will be interesting to see how much longer he lasts. If only Red Bull could get someone like Guiterrez or someone, but you never know how well they would do in that seat either

[chillibowl]

I suppose his win was somewhat fortunate but race wins are fairly uncommon in F1 (just look at the dates in the one hit wonder thread).

Anyone who gets on this list
should receive serious and immediate consideration for a top seat imo.

Except Maldonado of course!

But seriously, there must be a timeframe for Gasly now...if he isnt promoted for next season at the least, shouldn't he be looking elsewhere?

Renault comes to mind both as a French team and a refuge for outgoing RB talent.

[sizzle]

Originally Posted by sizzle

I think he is going to come a cropper more often than not with all the outside passing moves.
He is going to finish up in the weeds a lot.

Got caught out this time into the chicane.
As long as he keeps putting himself there it is going to keep hurting him!

[Adam43]

I only remember round the outside moves there. Certainly that was the normal way to go past yesterday as the other driver seemed to always chose the inside.

Pretty good racing by most people, always giving each other room.

[RWill2073]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

I suppose his win was somewhat fortunate but race wins are fairly uncommon in F1 (just look at the dates in the one hit wonder thread).

Anyone who gets on this list
should receive serious and immediate consideration for a top seat imo.

Except Maldonado of course!

But seriously, there must be a timeframe for Gasly now...if he isnt promoted for next season at the least, shouldn't he be looking elsewhere?

Renault comes to mind both as a French team and a refuge for outgoing RB talent.

I thi k the circumstances sort of puts a pause on gasly's timeframe. I know other drivers are making moves, but this being such a weird year, I wouldn't judge albon or gasly fully on this year. Gasly, imo, is the better driver, but I'd leave them where they are at least till midseason next year. Put gasly in red bull too soon and he loses all momentum up against verstappen. Albon had a midseason move last year and a stunted start to his first full year with red bull. Give him the full normal offseasons, and first half of next year to see if he keeps struggling. Also, why put someone like gasly, who is showing signs of an actual number 1 potential at times, into a role where he is locked into a supporting role? Leave the guy who looks like a number 2 in that role for now and let gasly keep showing he's the second best in the pipeline without the soul-crushing max will put on any teammate?

Also, it seems the red bull has a very narrow window of peak performance, and slips on both sides of that depending on setup. Didn't one of the drivers earlier say they were over steering one turn and under steering the next earlier this year? That, along with it being designed for verstappens liking, no teammate will hold up against him. Don't ruin gasly again too soon.

But he is more deserving of that drive than albon. I think the answer to the question posed, is, no.

[S griffin]

Gasly I wouldn’t put there among the best, but he’s settled down at Alpha Tauri. His performances have been decent rather than stellar. I wouldn’t necessary say he was the better driver of the two, although Red Bull did seem a leap too far. Albon was able to show his talent last season, but despite all the preparation, he too hasn’t exactly set the world on fire. His single seater record would suggest better.

I wouldn’t say Gasly is a number 1 either, although he’s probably enjoying his life more at this time. Red Bull ain’t an easy team to get into and it’s testament to Max’s perseverance that they are up in there in the title battle. The problem is they seem to only feel it’s enough to concentrate on one driver and you can hardly blame considering they aren’t exactly dominating like they used to

All in all Gasly is fine where he is and he can hopefully continue for a bit longer

[chunterer]

I bet Gasly will prefer to stayput fornow!

Albon might even be asking for a swap as the AT is far more driver friendly!

[wnut]

Originally Posted by chunterer

I bet Gasly will prefer to stayput fornow!

Albon might even be asking for a swap as the AT is far more driver friendly!

Seen suggestions that RBR may drop Albon back and employ Perez.

Not a completely daft move imo.

[Aysedasi]

Drop Albon back to where? - hopefully replacing Kvyat at last....

[S griffin]

Kvyat has shown talent in the past, but has been completely overshadowed by Gasly this season. He has probably had enough chances now

[Aysedasi]

More than enough....

[steve nielsen]

But they also have plans for Tsunado who is both Red Bull AND Honda backed

[wnut]

Originally Posted by steve nielsen

But they also have plans for Tsunado who is both Red Bull AND Honda backed

Trumped! Good point.

Hasn't he got to win the F2 Championship to get a super licence though?

Probably get a super licence on a special dispensation though, because he is both Japanese and manufacturer backed.