1400cc challenge

[Dan Friel]

The MSA (through the Blue Book) recommend cages and seats in all forms of sprinting, but not compulsory in road going classes. I'm not sure it would be appropriate to exclude anyone who wants to invest in basic safety equipment (with no performance advantage gained).

[The STIG]

Originally Posted by Dan Friel

I'm not sure it would be appropriate to exclude anyone who wants to invest in basic safety equipment (with no performance advantage gained).

Well that's my thinking - except from the performance advantage gained by being able to stay in the seat of course!!

[MikeHoyer]

Not gonna enter - a) don't have a 1400cc shopping car, b) I like living too much.

But if you guys want some photos, it's not too far from me, and I'll come along. Seriously!

[Suze]

Mike - do you know Colin Shipway? He's the guy who's at nearly all 7oaks events and does photos, it's all his stuff on 7oaks website.

[Alan Cherry]

Originally Posted by Suze

Will leave Sam to confirm but believe no as it appears to have been modified for competition and isn't a shopping car...

In the old days ( pre 2000 ) when they used to run standard classes, cages and other safety equipment was allowed but not mandatory - you could have electrical cut off and extinguishers of req'd. Front seats, seat belts and steering wheel could all be changed, and you could run standard diameter, but up to 1" wider wheels. If they are just digging out the same rules for standard cars this year, you can't lower the car, fit funny brakes ( although pads were free ). You are not allowed any max power/boy racer induction kits or back boxes etc. Also tyres had to be list 1A. Does anyone know if it's just the old rules being used again - If so, don't complain when you get kicked up to the modified class for having a big bore back box, or K&N induction kit etc. If you are doing it just for fun, you won't mind being in the modified class, if you are serious about winning the standard class, your car has to fit.
p.s. No funny springs or shocks allowed, but read any rules closely for 'standard' or 'standard type' - two very different animals.
If I remember right ( never competed in that class ) If entered, a well turned out suzuki swift GTI used to clean up the class, but things may be different now.

Alan
( ex sprinter now DTRC regular - when there are no holes in the block )

[Dan Friel]

Alan,

Yes it's those rules that are being used by the ACSMC, BARC SE and the Woolbridge MC are opening a similar class in their SW events.

[ss_collins]

I competed under the old rules and they were ok.

This is a bit different - those of you who are saying seat, cage, belts etc. well you are not prevented from entering the sprint, however for this trophy which will now definatley run on 1st April at North Weald (please some fools jokes) you are expected to bring a car in shopping spec, that means no cages, seats etc.

If you are worried about the speeds and dangers of running without a cage at North Weald then you probably should be worried about not using a crash helmet on the M25!

Exact wording of the regs should be finalised in the next couple of days so I'll let you all know. But I'm keen to be a bit loose to allow more cars in.

[Suze]

Bah beat me to it.

Yes this will be a privately run challange at North Weald on 1st April. The regs will be finalised and available within the next month I believe and when available can be obtained from http://www.sevenoaksmotorclub.com as it is Sevenoaks and District Motorclub who are running the sprint.

There will be a trophy for the winner.

[ss_collins]

catchy name needed suggestion anyone?

[Alan Cherry]

Originally Posted by ss_collins

catchy name needed suggestion anyone?

What about the Sevenoaks lets create yet another catagory class !
Whats wrong with the rules everyone else is using ? or do you want to specifically exclude other people running in the standard class ?

p.s. shouldn't thisd thread be in in Other Motorsport - Hillclimbing and Sprinting ?

Alan
( Playing devils advocote )

[Suze]

It's not 7oaks Alan - although it will appear on the regs and the sprint is run by 7oaks, it is a private challenge (being run by Sam) so not 7oaks creating another class.

The idea isn't to exclude anybody.....and yes, think you may be right with forum moves

[ss_collins]

Reasons a 1.3 Micra is not a match for a fully prepped and tuned Skoda Fabia VRS. So yes I am excluding some cars.

shopping spec 1400's have nowhere they can be competitive but theres a lot of them out there.

Its also good for the media and that could get some new competitors in which is the main goal. Right now there is no starter class in speed events.

I though the thread best here as I thought circuit racers may fancy a bit of cheap fun.

[historicmechy]

For a catchy name, how about Supermarket Sweep?!

[Suze]

I like it...!

[Dan Friel]

Sorry to be a pain in the butt, but.. are you sure this has been properly thought through?

1. With regards to safety, you'll be promoting rules in direct contradiction to the Blue Book. Yes i know it's only challenge, but are you certain that banning some basic safety devices (which aren't performance enhancing) is a good idea? I suspect that to avoid any liability in the advent of an accident you should at least "recommend" that they are used - as is done in the Blue Book. Not so long ago, an AX rolled several times at Colerne (a very open airfield) and it was only the cage that saved the driver….

2. How many types of car are you going to ban?? You want to encourage entrants but you might end up with a very long list of banned cars...
a) All turbo diesels (again, going against the Blue Book)
b) MG ZR
c) Fiat Punto Sporting (1.4)
d) Suzuki Swift GTi
e) Daihatsui Charade Turbo
f) Daihatsui Sirion
h) AX Gti
i) 205 GT / SR
j) 106 XSI / Raylle
k) Arosa Sport
l) Smart cars?
m) Nova SR and SRI
n) Tigra 1.4
o) Puma 1.4
p) Panda 100 HP


If that was the list I’d reckon that someone with a Rover 25 1.4 (100bhp) should end up winning with some ease..

Would it not just be best to run with the other standard cars in the ACSMC and BARC type events (both championships are running a standard class this year – for cars up to 2 litres), and avoid the potential complications? I promise that I’m not trying to put people off sprinting (in fact I'd always do the opposite), but I think that this may well be an over complication.

[ss_collins]

Lets get this straight its not a seperate class, its a trophy for cars that fit the spec being run by me at a single event. I think it will encourage people to come out and take part, which at the end of the day can only be a good thing.

Turbo Diesels are unfortunatley not elgible. The other cars you list are all fine and welcome. As I've said if you have a car that doesn't fit you can still do the sprint in the usual classes.

Dan why don't you come and do it and make up you mind afterwards, its only gonna cost you £50 and some fuel. After all the proof of the pudding and all that. The only way to find out is to see if people turn up for it, if they don't what have we lost out on? if it works well we might get some new competitors but if we carry on as we are we won't!

[Dan Friel]

Ok, now I get it. I’m afraid that I don’t have a sub 1400cc motor at the moment, but if I did then I’d certainly consider it (I have strange longings for a Panda 100 HP, so perhaps next year!). I am (hopefully) supporting the Woolbridge MC and ACSMC by entering my stock Primera in a couple of events this year within their new “standard” classes. A couple of years ago I used a friends Primera at Wiscombe, which was great fun in the wet (it was actually the tow car for his caterham which he used on the same day..). Fingers crossed that the use of standard cars in sprints / hillclimbs will make a bit of a comeback (although I’m not holding my breath!). It’s an excellent and cheap way to start off in motorsport, and I’d recommend it.

[ss_collins]

Agreed!

[Steve Wilkinson]

I have seen a couple of events this year, both at Curborough, where there were classes for Standard Road Cars. These classes (Up to 1400, 1401 to 2000 and Over 2000) were run in addition to the usual Road Modified classes.

It is a cheap way to go about Speed Eventing however there are downsides for the competitor. Over three weekends I saw one of the drivers who ran in the Standard Road Car class at Curborough out running the same car. In both the events that bracketed Curborough he was in totally different class - that's three different classes in as many weeks! There are too many championships and too many class structures at the moment in speed eventing. What is needed is some standardisation not proliferation!

As a one off trophy I believe you can get away with the 'no roll cage' ruling. However if you want to adopt this as part of a regional or national championship then the Blue Book must take presedence and roll cages must be optional.

Finally if I was mad enough to take a Nissan Micra on the M25 I think I would like it to have a roll cage!

[historicmechy]

Just been ruled out of entering. I have to work at Mugello in Italy that weekend! I will have to try and make another event if i get some dependant on more calender clashes with our races at work.

[The STIG]

can I just clarify a couple of points

Aside from the car what equipment is needed by the drivers?

and what licences are required?

[ss_collins]

MSA non race national B (phone up and pay £31)

Crash helmet

overalls

membership to an invited club (this covers a hell of a lot of clubs)

you gonna have a go - bit of a drive from wales I'm afraid.

[Alan Cherry]

Originally Posted by Suze

It's not 7oaks Alan - although it will appear on the regs and the sprint is run by 7oaks, it is a private challenge (being run by Sam) so not 7oaks creating another class.

Ahh ! The way the thread was reading appeared like Sam was trying to create yet another new class ( not a fun private challenge)! In which case I unreservedly withdraw my comments made in an earlier post, and wish you all the best.
( no chance of a 56 reg 1300 tubodiesel Astra being eligable ? It's **** all good for anything else! )

Name: With all this talk of Novas etc what about CHAVS CHALLENGE ?

[The STIG]

Originally Posted by ss_collins

MSA non race national B (phone up and pay £31)

Crash helmet

overalls

membership to an invited club (this covers a hell of a lot of clubs)

you gonna have a go - bit of a drive from wales I'm afraid.

Thanks for that,

Lets just say I'm interested - I've got to find a 1400cc car first.

[Suze]

Stig - license is £34 fwiw... Joining a club like 7oaks will cost £20 for a year. Can find lots of 1400 cars cheaply - mine is cheap and runs fine.

Alan - don't worry, astra should fit in a class anyway somewhere?

Hms don't like the idea of competing in something called chav!