Oulton

[Alfisti]

Some narrow tarmac in a rather nice bit of parkland. Rapidly approaching too.

Given the limited overtaking opportunities qualy is key. This was the breakthrough track for the Scoob with Turks and JP snagging silverware and each other. Prior to Croft I'd have called Ash out as a race winner here (or challenger at least).

I reckon it's going to be a BMW at the pointy end for R1 and likely 2, with FWD cars like AmD, BTC, Motorbase and PMR snapping at their heels and one of those dudes taking R3.

Croft deja vu in other words... anyone think otherwise?

[S griffin]

I think Oulton is often tough to predict considering the layout. I wouldn't be surprised if we see different names up at the front

[Sodemo]

Based on past form, I would say BMW should be strong here, but I think Subaru will have a better showing here. Oulton is not really about top speeds, but about corner entry and exits, which is where the Subaru’s strengths lie. I would say the Honda’s will be strong too.

[btccbloke]

BMW walk over track... Yawn

Maybe Team Hard will shuffle some of their drivers about to give us something interesting to think about

[porsche962fan]

Andy Jordan on pole and race 1 and 2 lights to flag win ?



one thing is sure, this year won't come close to having many winners per season when Jordan snatches them up like that

[btccbloke]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

Andy Jordan on pole and race 1 and 2 lights to flag win ?



one thing is sure, this year won't come close to having many winners per season when Jordan snatches them up like that

Stupid idea to have reduced the ballast for the r1 winner.
If brands wasn't so disrupted by weather we would probably have seen BMW take races 1&2 at each round.
Yes they screwed the car together better than anyone else but fans want something different to the same team dominating, or they would just watch f1.

[Sodemo]

Playing devils advocate here, has WSR just constructed an amazing car or have the other teams gone backwards for whatever reason? Why is the FK8 Honda getting beaten by the FK2? Why does the Subaru not look as potent as previous years? I think its a case of WSR have done their homework and have produced a very good car, but perhaps other teams haven't progressed or maybe even have gone backwards?

[porsche962fan]

regarding the FK8 how come BTC gets much better results than Dynamics ?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

regarding the FK8 how come BTC gets much better results than Dynamics ?

Because BTC are getting the car in the window more consistently.

https://www.autosport.com/btcc/news/143928/neal-fk8-honda-has-narrow-operating-window

[btccbloke]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Playing devils advocate here, has WSR just constructed an amazing car or have the other teams gone backwards for whatever reason? Why is the FK8 Honda getting beaten by the FK2? Why does the Subaru not look as potent as previous years? I think its a case of WSR have done their homework and have produced a very good car, but perhaps other teams haven't progressed or maybe even have gone backwards?

Yes hats off to WSR for getting it right, especially as the car was only really ready a week or so before the season started. The teams do need to get their acts together, I am surprised Dynamics especially have not made real gains in the new Honda.
Subaru - have they gone backwards? Its been their most consistent ever start but they were not as stella as I expected at Croft from previous years.


I don't think messing about with the ballast helped, and I didn't see what the point was.

I haven't found it entertaining and other teams having to play catch up while another tee am dominates is why I stopped watching F1 years ago and that hasn't changed.
Lets hope this is a short term issue in btcc

[Sodemo]

Also Ingram's Toyota arguably looks like a handful compared to the Avensis of last year. I just think that a lot of the competititon are having troubles of their own which coincides with WSR producing a fantastic car. I think the rest of the teams need to look at themselves rather than trying to claw WSR back in.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Also Ingram's Toyota arguably looks like a handful compared to the Avensis of last year. I just think that a lot of the competititon are having troubles of their own which coincides with WSR producing a fantastic car. I think the rest of the teams need to look at themselves rather than trying to claw WSR back in.

This I think is bang on:

The FK8 seems a difficult car to get the best of. That BTC are leaving Dynamics behind suggests the BTC drivers and engineers are better than Dynamics at understanding it. Despite Dynamics having a year of running. Camm isn't the man. Competitive but no Gordon Shedden; I feel for sure Dynamics would be on it if Flash were still here.

The Toyota isn't a patch on the Avensis. Maybe it will be in time, but I'm now doubting Tingram snagging many podiums except reverse grid luck ins.

Plato seems to be adjusting well to the Astra but isn't quite there yet. Top 10 rather than Top Cat. Rob C is struggling.

The Motorbase cars are going nowhere fast apart from Sonic - still my outside championship man.

Tordoff has sadly failed to be in the running too many times, with Rory B coming off better by far. Probably AmDs best season ever, but I think I was expecting (hoping?!) for more with the FK2 and driver combo. Still time...

All in all WSR are having it relatively easy so far; AJ is without doubt deserving of the title. Consistency Colin is his biggest challenge.

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

All in all WSR are having it relatively easy so far; AJ is without doubt deserving of the title. Consistency Colin is his biggest challenge.

you forgot Sutton

[S griffin]

I think WSR have got the car to their liking almost immediately, which has left the others trailing

The reason why they reduced the ballest was to stop title leaders always being right in the middle of the back, say 14th or 16th. And I think that was probably right

[crmalcolm]

My own preference would be for a two-tier ballast system.

At the moment, cars start a weekend with championship ballast. Then for R2 and R3, the ballast is based on the last race alone.

I think that the championship ballast levels should be as they are - but the race ballast should be upped significantly.

That way - consistent drivers/teams will enter the weekend with a reasonable chance of good results (particularly Q and R1), without their weekend being hampered totally. However, the ballast should then make it significantly difficult to take a R2 lights-flag win, and even more so in R3 with the reverse grid.
I think the consistent performers will still rise to the top and be challenging for championship honours, but it would prevent the R2 procession we are in danger of seeing too often this season.

[btccbloke]

I was wondering to myself if R2 would now be better for the reverse grid draw now.
R1 winner having to put up more fight and then finishing order for R3

[S griffin]

They did that when they first introduced the reverse grid in 04. That was when Plato kept going slow so he could start further up the grid for R2

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by S griffin

They did that when they first introduced the reverse grid in 04. That was when Plato kept going slow so he could start further up the grid for R2

That was when the reverse grid was an automatic 10 places as well though.

Now, with the draw, it is more random and harder to place your car in the right place for pole. Look at the most recent result for example:
Chilton 9th- pole.
Moffat 10th - 10th.
Plato 6th - 4th.

Where was the best place to finish in R2 to get then best chance of a good grid slot for R3?
The answer is as high as possible.

[Sodemo]

I'd prefer to have two qualifying sessions on the Saturday.

Have one practice session of 1hr, then two 45 minute quali sessions. The two sessions would dictate the starting order of race 1 and race 2. Race 3 could be a reverse grid draw or could be the finishing order of race 2.

This way if you mess up in race 1, your weekend isn't effectively over as you will have your quali start place for race 2.

[Liquoriceman]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I'd prefer to have two qualifying sessions on the Saturday.

Have one practice session of 1hr, then two 45 minute quali sessions. The two sessions would dictate the starting order of race 1 and race 2. Race 3 could be a reverse grid draw or could be the finishing order of race 2.

This way if you mess up in race 1, your weekend isn't effectively over as you will have your quali start place for race 2.

Or stick with the one quali session but use the drivers' two fastest times for race 1 & 2 respectively

Sent from my BLA-L09 using Tapatalk

[Alfisti]

I like both the above ideas. Second race is a rinse and repeat of the first to too big a degree. I'd rather see the start of the second based on another qualy lap (seperate session or second best lap) than race one finish. It would add something "genuinely competitive" to the weekend without resorting back to the artificial higher ballast of yester year.

[Sodemo]

This is kinda how I would approach it...

9:00am Support quali 1 (30 min)
9:30am Support quali 2 (30 min)
10:00am BTCC practice (45 min)
10:45am Support quali 3 (30 min)
11:15am Support quali 4 (30 min)
11:45am BTCC quali 1 (30 min)
12:15pm Lunch (30 min)
12:45pm Support quali / race 5 (30 min)
13:15pm Support quali / race 6 (30 min)
14:00pm BTCC quali 2 (30 min)

Have the one and only BTCC practice session mid-morning. This would allow people to arrive at the circuit in good time. Then have the support events after, followed by the quali 1 BTCC session before lunch. Then have a break followed by two more support events and then the BTCC quali 2 session after. The reason for the break between the two sessions is to allow for greater chance of track evolution. Maybe the extra rubber down will help, maybe it will hinder? Perhaps rain might fall in the 2 hours or so between the two sessions? You could have it even later like they do now and put it at 3pm or 4pm like it is at some events. Maybe put quali 1 at 1pm and then quali 2 at 3pm, the key is for me to have a fairly large gap so that teams can either make setup changes and the track can evolve.

At the end of the day, what is the point of having two practice sessions? Make one of them a quali session and make it actually count for something.

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

At the end of the day, what is the point of having two practice sessions? Make one of them a quali session and make it actually count for something.

they need two practice sessions as they dont have any pre-event testing on the friday like the support races do

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by touring fan01

they need two practice sessions as they dont have any pre-event testing on the friday like the support races do

OK, but do they need two?

[btccbloke]

Originally Posted by touring fan01

they need two practice sessions as they dont have any pre-event testing on the friday like the support races do

Then give them 30 mins late on friday, all the teams are there anyway.
There are way around that