F1 on the BBC

[alfaman]

When you read some of the members' comments about the BBC's coverage of F1 it seems some of them are looking through their rose-tinted glasses...

It's all too easy to criticise ITV but when BBC did actually hold the rights how good was their coverage?

Yes it was uninterrupted. But all the European races were part of their 'Sunday Grandstand' programme and they literally came to the race when the cars were sitting on the grid ready to go. No build-up. No grid walk. Very unimaginative - it was basically "here's Murray at Imola/Monza/Monaco (delete as appropriate)"; a quick look at the grid and off we go...

And once the chequered flag fell it seems they couldn't move to another sport quickly enough....

NO coverage of qualifying just a short report on 'Final Score' jammed in between the football results or the cricket scores.

ITV gives us 4 hours or so of coverage virtually every race weekend. Plus the highlights shows. BBC must have given us 1 hour 45 minutes max.

Yes there was a superb commentary team of Murray Walker & James Hunt but after James died in 1993 it wasn't the same.

If the BBC do ever get into a bidding war for F1 again it will still have to fit in to their weekend sports coverage and I think this would mean less build-up, less analysis and probably no live qualifying.

I think there is no political will at the BBC to bid for the coverage. How much 4-wheel motor sport is on BBC TV at the moment? None!

Motor racing is seen as an elitist sport. There are no kids from council estates driving, there is barely anyone from the ethnic minorities involved. BBC management simply aren't interested in it.

And remember the BBC only got into the bidding for the Premier League because of the direct involvment of the then Director General & Manchester United fan, Greg Dyke.

I have no connection with ITV but I'm amazed virtually every Sunday night when the ITV, James Allen, Jim Rosenthal et al bashers huddle over their keyboards and pull that weekend's coverage apart.

Just remember it wasn't necessarily better in the "good old days"....we just had to accept it squashed between the 1.30 at Haydock & the golf at Troon....

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by alfaman

If the BBC do ever get into a bidding war for F1 again it will still have to fit in to their weekend sports coverage and I think this would mean less build-up, less analysis and probably no live qualifying.

It would show qualifying because they would have to pay the earth for the contract and would be a waste of money if they didn't show it.

I long for the return of un-interupted coverage and "The Chain" as title music again, but i'd much rather have Sky's F1 digi + again, even if it does mean listening to John Watson

Are you listening Bernie????

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by alfaman

Yes it was uninterrupted.

There's your answer as far as I'm concerned. I've no great interest in the build-up anyway, although Martin's pit walk can be entertaining. I just want to watch the race. As soon as the race has finished, that's my lot (if I've stayed awake).

I detest the adverts. I'd give it back to the Beeb tomorrow.....

[f1manoz]

I'd rather no adverts and little build-up. Get the race on and get it off as quickly as possible. I'll never get that hour and a half back anyway!

[Gerben24]

Originally Posted by alfaman

No build-up. No grid walk...

BBC do the MotoGP nowadays, with the lovely Suzi Perry . They do have a build-up, a very good one to my opinion. If BBC ever get F1 back, I'm sure they will understand that they will need to build a bit of a show around it.

I do agree with you, ITV is being critized to much, but those bloody adverts .

[ensign14]

Originally Posted by alfaman

Yes it was uninterrupted.

Oh no it wasn't.

Young ensign14 distinctly remembers the excitement of the British GP 1982 with Belgrano in an unexpected 2nd and gaining on Didier Pironi - then they cut away to show bloody cricket.

By the time they were back the Toleman was out.

I remember Monaco the following year when you had an unlikely top 3 of Rosberg, Laffite and Surer with the rest miles back before disappearing - they came back just in time to catch Warwick t-bone Marc.

I also remember Canada 1989, where the coverage ended with an Osella in a podium position and an Arrows threatening the lead. Ended. They never came back. You had to wait until about 11.35 to see the Boutsen winning denouement.

BBC coverage is seen with rose-tinted spectacles. At times their commitment to F1 bordered on the criminal. Had it not been for Mansellmania they would barely have bothered with it at all.

[Kicking-back]

Anyway, as we have a commercial broadcaster happily paying millions for the rights, it is not the role of the BBC to get into a bidding war.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by alfaman

ITV gives us 4 hours or so of coverage virtually every race weekend. Plus the highlights shows. BBC must have given us 1 hour 45 minutes max.

4 hours. Frankly, with ITV doing it that is too much. Quality not quantity.

Also stories about the sport in the early days of coverage are pointless. The beeb built it up to what it was. No sport would get so much coverage after immediately finding its way on to the screen. Also factor in how sports coverage has grown over those years too. They are the ones who first chose to show as much as they did.

It is clear that ITV has to show adverts. However, inherently, that is always a disadvantage and if people prefer no adverts they prefer no adverts.

For me the annoyance of adverts is important, but secondary to what the rest of the programme does to my sport.

As I said before it is quality not quantity. The beeb has quality, ITV does not. Simply because it does not operate in the same market place as the BBC. The BBC is there to broadcast television programmes. ITV is there to sell advertising.

[Knowlesy]

Spot on post, in its entirety there Adam.

[gringottsdirect]

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

The beeb has quality, ITV does not. Simply because it does not operate in the same market place as the BBC. The BBC is there to broadcast television programmes. ITV is there to sell advertising.

BBC already carries a substantial amount of advertising - OK for BBC, but it still carries a huge amount of trailers, book, magazine, DVD plugs.
I don't think ITV coverage is as bad as it is made out to be - there is definitely an element of snobbery in condemning it in favour of BBC. I remember many races being shortened because of golf, tennis and cricket in particular. Steve Ryder may have shown more genuine enthusiasm than The Count at the beginning of ITV doing F1 - but I'm convinced Jim is warming to it now. James Allen isn't THAT bad either. Ted Kravitz and Louise Goodman are OK - the most annoying pundit is the one most reminiscent of BBC days - head boy - Tony Jardine, but even he isn't totally awful.
ITV has to carry adverts - I suffer less than some because I delay watching the race for about 1 hour - then whizz through the adverts with my Sky+. OK I'm still not watching continuous racing but at least I'm not sitting through repeated five minutes stretches of frustration.
I also believe if ever BBC carried F1 again - who knows - that it would find itself squashed between other sports, with shortened pre and post race segments. BBC coverage of MotoGP often cuts away before the champagne spraying to go over to horse racing. ITV is very good in this regard - even to the point of Coronation Street follows shortly, at least they don't cut the show immediately post-race to hit the soap slot. I have even managed to live with the footie promo slots - and I hate football.
ITV covering the qualifying - and showing every race is fine with me - at least I don't have to pay for Sky Sports - which is the most probable alternative broadcaster, Sky would have ads too.
OK some of us would like Suzi Perry instead of Louise Goodman, Ben Edwards instead of James Allen and Peter Windsor instead of Ted Kravitz but you know it will never happen !
I subscribed to F1 Digital and it was great but even compared to that I really don't think ITV are doing such a bad job - I'm not convinced BBC will be any better.

[BootsOntheSide]

If the BBC spent enough out of their sports budget to win the rights to F1, there wouldn't be much left to produce a quality programme. Any sport which takes place in 17 different countries is going to be hard to justify to a casual audience. It was only after the BBC knew they weren't retaining the coverage that they started showing qualifying live, and it wasn't ntil the last few years that every race was uninterrupted.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by gringottsdirect

BBC already carries a substantial amount of advertising - OK for BBC, but it still carries a huge amount of trailers, book, magazine, DVD plugs.

Hardly the same though is it?

Originally Posted by gringottsdirect

I don't think ITV coverage is as bad as it is made out to be - there is definitely an element of snobbery in condemning it in favour of BBC. I remember many races being shortened because of golf, tennis and cricket in particular.

My point is that by the end of the time they showed it wasn't like this. And they don't have cricket anymore (oh and Ch4 do a great job of that dispite the adverts).

Snobbery? Well maybe, but it was forced upon me by years of ITV programming.

Originally Posted by gringottsdirect

James Allen isn't THAT bad either.

He is.

Originally Posted by gringottsdirect

ITV has to carry adverts - I suffer less than some because I delay watching the race for about 1 hour - then whizz through the adverts with my Sky+.

This is a good plan, but like others it needs to be live. For the practical reason on being able to watch the timing, but also jsut because it needs to be! Ido watch it recorded and do the same as you, but only if I've been out during the day.

Originally Posted by gringottsdirect

ITV is very good in this regard - even to the point of Coronation Street follows shortly, at least they don't cut the show immediately post-race to hit the soap slot.

No they have ten minutes of pointless round-up which is rushed and tends to miss the point and the press conference.

Originally Posted by gringottsdirect

OK some of us would like Suzi Perry instead of Louise Goodman, Ben Edwards instead of James Allen and Peter Windsor instead of Ted Kravitz but you know it will never happen !

Taking the Ben thing. I agree it'll never happen, but there is no reason why it shouldn't.

Originally Posted by gringottsdirect

I'm not convinced BBC will be any better.

I am. take football, when a match is on both ITV and BBC, where do the majority of people watch it? I'm afraid they ignore the great Des.

[Kicking-back]

Nothing wrong with snobbery Adam!

[gringottsdirect]

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

I am. take football, when a match is on both ITV and BBC, where do the majority of people watch it?

In the pub !

[Adam43]

True!

[esorniloc]

What was great about the coverage in 96 was the fact that Eurosport had rights to show the races. I remember watching the German GP in 96 and being able to watch practice on Friday and Saturday, qualifying, the warm up and the Grand Prix all live. A total, of about 8 hours, of live F1 coverage over the weekend and for free.

[Hip Priest]

The BBC is funded (on an involuntary basis) by the British public, and therefore does not need to show adverts. ITV is an independent television network and therefore it needs to generate revenue from advertising. How else can they raise funds to produce television programmes? I'd be delighted if someone could tell me.

[Adam43]

ITV need the adverts, clearly. However that doesn't mean that the adverts aren't a negative side to the coverage.

[Hazard]

Catching the last few years of BBC coverage, there was nothing wrong with it. Okay, it was just the race, but that's all I often want to see. The coverage therefore didn't contain all this overpatriotic 'football' style coating, decent commentary from Walker & Palmer - not a painful duo at all...and as said, Eurosport as a perfect complete back-up.

I remember watching the races twice for the Edwards & Watson version too, where I could forward through Eurosport's breaks.

In fact, some of those commentary quotes are buried into my brain...such as when Eurosport showed the qualifying for the first Australian GP at Melbourne...and John Watson proclaiming Irvine's shocking acheivement of outqualifying Michael Schumacher for the first grand prix of their Ferrari careers.

Stuff rose tinted spectacles...the BBC gave us the race with no breaks or bias, Eurosport gave us the rest. Vs ITV's coverage, I'd take that again anyday!

[Hip Priest]

I also fail to understand all the complaints about the (admitedly lengthy) pre-amble before the race. If you only want to see the race, then why not switch on five minutes before it starts?! I think some people go through life looking for an opportunity to have a good whinge

[Hip Priest]

Originally Posted by Hazard

the BBC gave us the race with no breaks or bias

Although i love Murray, i have to admit that he was hugely biased towards first Mansell, and then Hill. James Hunt was also incredibly biased against Riccardo Patrese.

[Adam43]

The thing about the pre-amble is that it isn't very good and, for myself, borders on the offensive. A wasted opportunity to educate properly about the sport and. It actually, IMHO, gives people the wrong idea about the sport. It stays superficial and while that may be good for the new viewer it will never develop true fans. IMHO.

Although I do adhere to your advice (about avoiding this). I try to tune into the race just as Martin's grid walk is starting. Martin seems to be a bastion of quality coverage though. He tries, he has knowledge, he is coherent, he is witty and above all he cares about the sport and conveying the sport correctly. In short he could be from the BBC

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Hip Priest

Although i love Murray, i have to admit that he was hugely biased towards first Mansell, and then Hill. James Hunt was also incredibly biased against Riccardo Patrese.

Again I find a differnce. Murray was biased, true. However it was due to a real love for the people and the sport. That was endearing and added to the commentary ("I've got to stop now because I've got a lump in my throat"). The bias towards the current favoured Brit is not due to a deep respect for the man, but for a deep respect of viewing figures. Worlds apart.

[Hip Priest]

I agree with you about Brundle's gridwalk. It is often better than the race

[Sodemo]

I think Adam has summed up pretty much everything I was going to say...