Engines/power reduction?

[Edmonton]

Do you think F1 will keep the 3litrev10 formula in the not to distant future or adopt a new formula?

[shiny side up!]

If the manufacturers get their way, the formula won't change any time soon. With the amount of time, money, manpower, and all the other resources they pour into engine development, they surely won't want to change the rules and start all over again...

[DriverT]

Yes indeed. Half of them will probably leave if it's changed, in a similar way to CART.

[Adam43]

Recently (a couple of months ago) there were looking into 2.5l engines.

[esorniloc]

They should keep the limit to 3l, but allow different engines like a V8, V12 or V16.

[RWC]

As adam siad,recently they allmost changed to V8 2.5 litres.The idea being that they would just drop 2 cyl's and all else would be very similar.
BMW were the only ones not wanting it i think as they have some V10 road cars coming out soon

[DriverT]

... or esorniloc, a W12

[GTV27]

Not sure that the 2.5l proposal really went anywhere.

If it was to reduce speed/increase safety, there are much cheaper ways of going about it (less aero, slicks, higher min weight limit)

Pardon my ignorance, but can't a manufacturer build a V8 or V12 now?

[The Zuschauer]

It's a shame that V12's don't exist any more. The screamof the V12 Ferrari against the V10's was astonishing. As far as I know, the V12 was abolished by the team due to reliability instead of due to rule changes. Is this correct?

As long as teams stick with the 3 litre capacity, I don't see why number of cylinders can't be free. Surely a V16 will produce smoother power than a V10, and will actually help the develop more reliable engine technology.

[bradenc]

I think there is a maximum of 10 cylinders allowed, almost everyone except rari were using 10 cylinders. Rari favoured refueling for this reason i think.

[Yunis]

the concorde agreement allows no more than 10 cyliners

[cntmunky]

V10's are only allowed. Toyota were building a V12 for there entry a few years ago, and right at the last minute the powers that be banned them. This is why they delayed a year. Ferrari were also looking at a V12 at this point. Many teams believe the disadvantages with the V12 have all but gone now, while a V8 is no good.

[shiny side up!]

They probably couldnt get a V8 to rev like a V10 right now... and with TC allowed, the quirkier response of the V10 is not really a handicap as opposed to a V8. I doubt we would see a V8 unless it was mandated...

[Adam43]

There are other factors that may make you chose a different configuration, if allowed. Fuel economy, wieght and power as examples. Some favour more cylinders, some less. A few years ago V10 was teh best comprimise, I wonder what it is now?

[RWC]

I still say the 'metered flow fuel valve' idea proposed by (i think)cosworth is a great solution to power output dilemma.No they won't run out of fuel like in the eighties and it does FORCE them to get the most power per gram of fuel.f1 would again have some usefull relevance to car makers again
If the engines are getting to powerfull,the fia just mandates a reduction in fuel flow....how simple is that?!!
Of course the fia won't do that because they have NO clue

And while on the subject of no clue....mario illien,cheif of the merc engine wants f1 to 'recycle' power(ie. turning braking energy into acceleration energy)
A nice future solution at first glance...except it does absolutally NOTHING for the future.It's a one time only solution.Besides the carmakers have no need for technology in that direction.

[BD]

"...except it does absolutally NOTHING for the future.It's a one time only solution.Besides the carmakers have no need for technology in that direction."

Not true RWC. The future of road cars will and does include technology which converts wasted energy into usable energy.
In fact, here in the US there are 3 cars on the road which use this type of technology. And a second generation is due mid October.
F1 is about technological advancement. If F1 teams were allowed to use such "hybrid" systems, a smaller displacement engine, coupled with an electrical or hydraulic energy recovery system, would result in increased power(especially torque) and a significant improvement in fuel efficiency.
As natural resources become more unstable, and concerns of global warming rise, carmakers are seeking solutions to combat these problems.
F1 at the fore-front of automotive technology, plays a leadership role in the auto industry. If hybrids were allowed in F1, the advancements would soon trickle down to road cars for the benefit of all.

[esorniloc]

Originally posted by DriverT
... or esorniloc, a W12

Well the only W12 I can remember was the Life and that wasn't all that sucsessful.

I guess the strangest engine ever in F1 was the H16 used by BRM in the 60's.

Would a Flat 10 engine be allowed under the current engine rules?

[Adam43]

A W12 would be fun, but I suspect that packaging it might not be as convenient as for a V engine. It could also be complicated and have a high centre of gravity.

Interesting though...

[esorniloc]

Originally posted by AdamAshmore
A W12 would be fun, but I suspect that packaging it might not be as convenient as for a V engine. It could also be complicated and have a high centre of gravity.

Ohhhhh so thats why the Life didn't work!

[gttouring]

sure an H10 would work- talk about wide angle V's
the renault was ay 110 degrees yes? or 120?
a 180 V is a flat motor
180 degree v10 might be neat and the sound i bet is creepy

[DriverT]

Life had a few more problems than the W12, but an interesting idea...

[esorniloc]

Well Life eventially gave up on the engine and tried to race a Judd V8, still it was no better, so I guess there were big problems in the chassis too!

[GTV27]

packaging a flat engine is a problem in an open wheeler such that the c of g advantages are outweighed by problems with exhaust manifolds, aero and structural compromises.

fuel flow concept sounds interesting - would focus efforts on efficiency (which would also be useful for normal R&D purposes - unlike a lot of current efforts - eg road cars will never need to run at 19,000rpm)

[gttouring]

RaceCar engineering had a special feature on repackaging the renault wide angle V10 (111 degrees) the intakes would be on the side of the driver instead of on top as the current 'snorkel design', the intake runners would go up "under" the heads and the exhaust would sit between the banks and the bundle of snakes could exit straight back under the rear wing. the heat would aid airflow and the design would be more aero effective as it would have less in the way-accordingly- and the cg would be way lower.
Now an H-opposed motor could be packaged similarly and overcome this bit of trouble, really neato article.

[GTV27]

yep sounds good in theory, but if it really worked, they would have done it and not just be talking about it

I'd say the current basic layout is the optimum pending a change in regulations, materials or some genuine leap forward (eg like ground effects was).