Welcome to the Unified American Open Wheel Forum

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by stradlin21

Someone pass me a gun! I feel i can't go on!

Because CART did so well without TG didn't they, that's a very blinkered view to take but good to see 'they've' sent over the cavalry!

Go back and read the history.

At the moment of the announcement of the formation of the irl in 1994, Indycar was a powerful racing organization feared by Nascar and F1. It's TV deal was actually better than Nascar's at the time. Attendance, tv ratings, sponsor, manufacturer support, tire support, chassis diversity was all good. Demographics at the time showed Indycar had about half the fans as Nascar, but that Indycar fans had a household income of twice that of Nascar fans.

In November 1991 tony george walked into a CART meeting and demanded a stake and control in Indycar, something he neither had title to or experience in running a racing series.

The split is what tore the sport apart. You can go back and find different decisions CART made and find poor decisions here and there, but nothing like what the split caused.

Would Nascar be strong ten years from now if the sport split in half?

Would F1 be strong ten years from now if the sport split in half?

The same issue that existed in 1994 with tony still exists today. People want to plug their ears and scream lalalalalala. Be in denial if you want, but unless radical changes are made now and they get a dynamic group of people in to run the business, Indycar is toast.

[stradlin21]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Go back and read the history.

At the moment of the announcement of the formation of the irl in 1994, Indycar was a powerful racing organization feared by Nascar and F1. It's TV deal was actually better than Nascar's at the time. Attendance, tv ratings, sponsor, manufacturer support, tire support, chassis diversity was all good. Demographics at the time showed Indycar had about half the fans as Nascar, but that Indycar fans had a household income of twice that of Nascar fans.

In November 1991 tony george walked into a CART meeting and demanded a stake and control in Indycar, something he neither had title to or experience in running a racing series.

The split is what tore the sport apart. You can go back and find different decisions CART made and find poor decisions here and there, but nothing like what the split caused.

Would Nascar be strong ten years from now if the sport split in half?

Would F1 be strong ten years from now if the sport split in half?

The same issue that existed in 1994 with tony still exists today. People want to plug their ears and scream lalalalalala. Be in denial if you want, but unless radical changes are made now and they get a dynamic group of people in to run the business, Indycar is toast.

Listen mate, get over it, move on, stop living in the past!

what's done is done! Lets look to the future

The last thing you need to do is too turn into a bitter old man like Robin Miller......

[Purist]

I think MS is right to some extent. Tony Cotman MUST be free to do his job and reshape the series to the extent that that is required. IF TG doesn't allow Cotman to do that, then we WILL have problems. I have no problem with TG's ability to manage Indy itself, but I think the IRL's record speaks for itself as far as his ability to grow an entire series.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by stradlin21

Listen mate, get over it, move on, stop living in the past!

what's done is done! Lets look to the future

The last thing you need to do is too turn into a bitter old man like Robin Miller......

Hey I'm looking to the future. I accept what is done is done. Doesn't mean I'm going to stop expressing my opinion. I believe at some point down the road if you put the right people in charge and spread positive goodwill in the community that Indycar racing CAN live again.

But it's important to know how and why we got to where we are today and not doom ourselves to repeating mistakes. As I've said before doing the same thing and expecting a different result is stupid.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Go back and read the history.

At the moment of the announcement of the formation of the irl in 1994, Indycar was a powerful racing organization feared by Nascar and F1. It's TV deal was actually better than Nascar's at the time. Attendance, tv ratings, sponsor, manufacturer support, tire support, chassis diversity was all good. Demographics at the time showed Indycar had about half the fans as Nascar, but that Indycar fans had a household income of twice that of Nascar fans.

The year CART was formed Indy type car racing was strong and USAC stock cars were challenging NASCAR (Comp. Press' opinion not mine) but that is done and gone, CART is gone, the IRL as formed is gone, LIFE MOVES ON.

In November 1991 tony george walked into a CART meeting and demanded a stake and control in Indycar, something he neither had title to or experience in running a racing series.

Without INDIANAPOLIS there was NO CART.
Indy survives WITHOUT CART. (which is why they sued in court not to be excluded)

Would Nascar be strong ten years from now if the sport split in half?

Would NASCAR be strong if the USAC BoD had not been killed?

You are trying to write some sort of La-la land history based on half-truths and just plain BS.
Life moves on, que sera sera.
Bob

[JohnSSC]

NASCAR was never run by a "BOD." Big Bill France (sr) was all the Board of Directors NASCAR ever needed.

What we don't need here are rock stars to run things, but people who can think, who care about the sport and have the wherewithal to make things happen.

Yeah, TG doesn't come across as a media "star" but too many that have turned out to be a flash-in-the-pan.

I am with Bob on this one. Let's move on and forward, shall we?

[icemachine]

As I've said before doing the same thing and expecting a different result is stupid.

Actually MS, thats Chaos theory

[stradlin21]

Good words Bob and John

although i see where MS is coming from

let's get on with things

press conference today, gonna be hard pushed to get home from work in time to see though

[climb]

Ms the real point is, you and some others here have been declaring for months you wanted an Unified OWR in the States, but that wasn't the thruth: you just wanted TG out of that.

Once that we have one sole OWR series we all should be happy about it (my sole sympathy goes, obviously, to the CC staff), but no, not only do you complain, but also have decided this has to fail because you don't like it.

Lets' not forget that this could have happened 3 yrs ago; without the Amigos' attempt (that many Cart fans cheered as heroical but, at the end of the day proved nothing but a waste of time, and money of course), there could already be a stronger OWr in America.

If you don't like TG and his behaviour I can only remind you a series owner is not meant to be a new Mother Teresa, his job being make the series work. Now he has the chance to make OWR get big again, on the base of the results he gets, he'll be judged. apriori this new reality only deserves to be encouraged IMO

[stradlin21]

Originally Posted by climb

Ms the real point is, you and some others here have been declaring for months you wanted an Unified OWR in the States, but that wasn't the thruth: you just wanted TG out of that.

Once that we have one sole OWR series we all should be happy about it (my sole sympathy goes, obviously, to the CC staff), but no, not only do you complain, but also have decided this has to fail because you don't like it.

Lets' not forget that this could have happened 3 yrs ago; without the Amigos' attempt (that many Cart fans cheered as heroical but, at the end of the day proved nothing but a waste of time, and money of course), there could already be a stronger OWr in America.

If you don't like TG and his behaviour I can only remind you a series owner is not meant to be a new Mother Teresa, his job being make the series work. Now he has the chance to make OWR get big again, on the base of the results he gets, he'll be judged. apriori this new reality only deserves to be encouraged IMO

excellent post

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by climb

Ms the real point is, you and some others here have been declaring for months you wanted an Unified OWR in the States, but that wasn't the thruth: you just wanted TG out of that.

Once that we have one sole OWR series we all should be happy about it (my sole sympathy goes, obviously, to the CC staff), but no, not only do you complain, but also have decided this has to fail because you don't like it.

Lets' not forget that this could have happened 3 yrs ago; without the Amigos' attempt (that many Cart fans cheered as heroical but, at the end of the day proved nothing but a waste of time, and money of course), there could already be a stronger OWr in America.

If you don't like TG and his behaviour I can only remind you a series owner is not meant to be a new Mother Teresa, his job being make the series work. Now he has the chance to make OWR get big again, on the base of the results he gets, he'll be judged. apriori this new reality only deserves to be encouraged IMO

Yes I believe mr. george should stick to running the speedway. IMO he hasn't ever impressed me with his skills running a race series. I think I've made it clear continuing under his leadership is a road to nowhere. The more decisions he puts in the hands of people like Tony Cotman, the better.

I don't think 2004-2008 was a waste of time. Maybe for you, but I enjoyed it and the races. The amigos failed to make an investment from the beginning in 2004 for good tv, star drivers and aggressive marketing. They failed to appoint a strong CEO with the power to get things done. They failed in a lot of areas. All things that can be learned from.

You've misinterpreted my position. I have always been for one series. Just not under the current ownership. Yes we should all be happy about it. I just happen to be smart enough to see continuing down the same road the irl is on is fatal to the sport. Did you know only 13-14 irl cars were going to make the season opener at Homestead? Hardly the model of success. Without this sudden injection of champcar teams, personnel, drivers, etc. 2008 would have been very bleak for the irl.

Since this sell out by champcar ownership, I have yet to declare "this has to fail". Please point out where I said that. There again, I'm wise enough to know goodwill, opportunities and time are running out for open wheel racing and if it does fail, then that is end of open wheel racing for the time being. NO I am not yet confident the current leadership can make the right decisions to move forward. But I do not wish for failure and destruction of the sport.

In response to your last paragraph, no I do not respect mr. george for what he did and the trouble he caused. If he is ever contrite and says "hey I'm sorry, I made mistakes, I regret the unpleasantness that happened", then on that day I will reconsider my position. As long as he remains an unrepentant prick, I and others wont be canonizing him as a saint as some wish to do. The irony in everything is he now has 100% control, but also 100% of the responsibility and that I think IS AWESOME!

Ultimately I want it to succeed because it opens up more opportunities for my career!

[stradlin21]

13-14 cars to make the first race?

What an total load of rubbish, complete lie

Wasn;t there 15 on the open test list? And DRR still to come? Plus some others……

Lol! 13 to 14, just a blatent lie, very very sad I’m afraid

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by stradlin21

13-14 cars to make the first race?

What an total load of rubbish, complete lie

Wasn;t there 15 on the open test list? And DRR still to come? Plus some others……

Lol! 13 to 14, just a blatent lie, very very sad I’m afraid

Yup that's what was going down. It was very, very sad. Not a lie, only the commercial reality of finding sponsorship with the status quo of a few weeks ago. I have no doubt though tony would have dug deep to add some more cars, but to what end? Even more welfare?

I work with Champcar/CART/Indycar drivers and drivers from lower formulas as well. I would say I have a good grasp of what is actually going rather than sitting thousands of miles away behind a computer and watching some races on tv.

[stradlin21]

Don't fall off that high horse will you...

There was 15 full time cars confirmed last month mate!

Plus of course Alex Lloyd, Tomas Scheckter, Sarah Fisher are all the run at least part time and DRR could run 2 full time

so are you saying that some of those CONFIRMED cars were going to dissapear in the Bermuda Triangle over the next few weeks?

You are getting increasingly deserate with your comments MS

i can see your point of view on some things but this is just silly mate, give it up, it's over

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by stradlin21

Don't fall off that high horse will you...

There was 15 full time cars confirmed last month mate!

Plus of course Alex Lloyd, Tomas Scheckter, Sarah Fisher are all the run at least part time and DRR could run 2 full time

so are you saying that some of those CONFIRMED cars were going to dissapear in the Bermuda Triangle over the next few weeks?

You are getting increasingly deserate with your comments MS

i can see your point of view on some things but this is just silly mate, give it up, it's over

Whatever dude, believe what you want. Jeez.

[stradlin21]

I don't believe you for starters! I know the facts mate, there was 15 cars confirmed ages ago PLUS the additons, if you can't get your head around that them i'm sorry

i don't believe you work inside motorsport either but that's my opinion

look at everyone elses comments to you mate, you need to get over it, surely you have a life outside of the internet?

[2112]

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by stradlin21

I don't believe you for starters! I know the facts mate, there was 15 cars confirmed ages ago PLUS the additons, if you can't get your head around that them i'm sorry

i don't believe you work inside motorsport either but that's my opinion

look at everyone elses comments to you mate, you need to get over it, surely you have a life outside of the internet?

Believe what you want. I'm here, you're not. Big difference.

I do in fact work inside motorsport and will be on track all next week. What are you doing next week?

[stradlin21]

Doing what i'm paid to do! Being an Electrician

i don't believe a word you say mate and I KNOW that goes for others here

but as this is a public forum, lets discuss the unified series.....

we should all be friends now....

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by stradlin21

Doing what i'm paid to do! Being an Electrician

i don't believe a word you say mate and I KNOW that goes for others here

but as this is a public forum, lets discuss the unified series.....

we should all be friends now....

Like I said believe what you want. I certainly don't want to hold you back.

[Purist]

MS, you're going to have to cite something on this one if you want to be taken seriously on the points you're trying to make.

But enough of that, that's not why we're supposed to be in this thread. Take a few steps back and let the comupters cool down a bit, as well as your fingers.

[stradlin21]

Originally Posted by Purist

MS, you're going to have to cite something on this one if you want to be taken seriously on the points you're trying to make.

But enough of that, that's not why we're supposed to be in this thread. Take a few steps back and let the comupters cool down a bit, as well as your fingers.

i've taken a step back on that. it's not worth it! and i agree with your first point

moving on......................

in case anyone doesn't know, live timing is going to be available of the Homestead test session

[Xpunk75]

You guys are both beating a dead horse, 15 confirmed or 17 confirmed it doesn't matter. 20 cars per race for a mostly oval series to most race fans eyes and especially to NassCar fans looks really freaking bad. CCWS and the IRL has sucked in my opinion. IRL from the start, and CCWS after the 3 major teams left for the IRL.

I honestly don't give a **** what was going to happen if the two series didn't merge. All I care about is that things are finally going in the right direction after Tony George destroyed my favorite racing series. So maybe in 2 years ill be able to watch it again and enjoy it.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Purist

MS, you're going to have to cite something on this one if you want to be taken seriously on the points you're trying to make.

But enough of that, that's not why we're supposed to be in this thread. Take a few steps back and let the comupters cool down a bit, as well as your fingers.

Hey, people can believe what they want. That's the info I had from different people I talked to and I don't have reason to doubt it.

[Stefvh]

As Xpunk75 says, we don't care anymore how many cars there would have been on each series.