Atmo or Turbo

[lj79]

Every car at Spa 24 this year was atmo'.

Personally, I love the noises of atmo' cars but also like to see turbo cars flaming out big-time on the over run (well, like 956/962s, LC2s etc), especially at night.

What is everyone's cup of tea here?

[tblincoe]

Don't think you'll be seeing turbo cars in the GT categories (at least in widespread use) for some time to come...

That having been said I think I prefer naturally-aspirated engines as some of the best sounds from a sportscar have been the Aston Martin V-12, Elan V8, Corvette V8, and Judd V10... engines such as the Audi or Bentley TT V8s, Nissan TT V8, or Cadillac TT V8 are just uninspiring in their exhaust note.

[lj79]

I liked the note of the Northstar V8s at LM 2000, after the exhausts had been re-routed

[BSchneiderFan]

I really miss turbo cars, but then I really miss Porsche. The noise of the blown flat-six was something else.

Why have turbos fallen so far out of fashion in GT?

[JAG]

How many turbo supercars are there?

Thats your answer to the lack of turbo GT1s.

Turbos have seen a revival in all other road car classes.

[The Badger]

The Oldsmobile V8 in the R&S from 1996 lm , the Mazda 767B from 1991 , the Jag 7.3 V12 with a broken exhaust manifold , the Acheson-Fabi-Wollek car . The Judd GV4 is an amazing sounding engine , my favourite . Elan V8 ...... my list would go on and on . It would be easier to say which engine i least liked !!!

That would have to be the Ford DFV ..... That was disgusting !!!

[lj79]

[QUOTE=The Badger], the Jag 7.3 V12 with a broken exhaust manifold , the

QUOTE]

never ran at 7.3. Must be 7.4

[The Badger]

I thought the 1991 XJR-12LM was 7.3 litres ?

[Bramzel]

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

Why have turbos fallen so far out of fashion in GT?

Because they're much heavier restricted than non-turbo cars.

[BSchneiderFan]

Which is strange, as turbo is the way to go in prototypes - Audi have used a turbo since '99, of course, and the new Cosworth and AER customer engines are blown too.

[Bramzel]

I was referring to the GT1 and GT2 cars, not the Proto's I don't know about the proto's exactly.

[cybersdorf]

Originally Posted by The Badger

I thought the 1991 XJR-12LM was 7.3 litres ?

AFAIK it was 7.4l.

The various restrictions in GT and LMP play out differently, to the effect that atmos are favoured in GT and turbos in LMP. Pity, though, that the ACO isn't doing anything to even out the difference.

[BSchneiderFan]

Originally Posted by Bramzel

I was referring to the GT1 and GT2 cars, not the Proto's I don't know about the proto's exactly.

Yes, I know you were. That was the point I was making; it's odd that turbos are the favoured format for prototypes but are rendered uncompetitive by the GT regs.

[Bramzel]

Ah, yeah you're right there. Isn't it so that for Turbo-charged GT1 cars the maximum engine capacity is 4.0L?

[BSchneiderFan]

I was thinking about this. Several teams run turbocharged Porsche 911s - A-Level Engineering, Jurgen Alzen Motorsport, PSI Motorsport and Manthey Racing occur to me off the top of my head - but only A-Level has taken the plunge in international motorsport. Why won't someone take a punt at the FIA GT Championship? Would a Porsche really be so uncompetitive against GT1 cars? If so, why doesn't M. Ratel pull his finger out and make sure the rules don't penalise blown cars? After all, Porsche is in so many ways the backbone of international endurance racing. It would be great to see 911s in the top class again.

[cybersdorf]

Originally Posted by Bramzel

Ah, yeah you're right there. Isn't it so that for Turbo-charged GT1 cars the maximum engine capacity is 4.0L?

4l for turbocharged engines in GT and LMP1, 5.5l for LMP1 diesels, and AFAIK 2.5l for LMP2 turbos.

[Fogelhund]

It is possible that GT1 reg's are specifically designed so that Porsche doesn't have dozens of cars in both classes. While I'm a huge Porsche fan, and would love to see them competitive in GT1, I think that this does make some sense in keeping them to one class, with a car that essentially would look the same.

[BSchneiderFan]

Hmmm, I don't like regulations which are targeted at one specific manufacturer. I rather tend to think it penalises success. And we can hardly blame Porsche for the success of the 911 GT3 series; no other manufacturer (except maybe Panoz) has stepped up to the plate to build reasonable numbers of a well-sorted and competitive challenger. Ferrari haven't shown all that much interest in the development of the 360, the Callaway project came to little despite winning pole at Le Mans, Nissan's NISMO-refined 350Z was trailed but never appeared...

[Spiteful]

I always thought that Porsches weren't that succesful in gt1 in recent years because of inherent aero disadvantages, but that might just be completely unfounded...

[lj79]

If you mean the GT1 Porsches of 97 and 98 - this was cos restrictors were placed on the cars firstly in 97, which meant that a car which had arrived in 96 and thrashed the opposition was uncompetitive in the 97 season (although at Le Mans the cars had the legs).

In 98, the 911-GT1 98 was given restrictors after Silverstone (i think) and never got near the Mercs after that in the championship.

[Spiteful]

not that gt1, the old gt2
But come to think of it, my previous post was utter bs

[TheNewBob]

Maybe we could have the Porsche Chayene in GT1 lol

[BSchneiderFan]

I don't think the 911 has inherent aero disadvantages, but there is an argument that what P.J. O'Rourke described as an "ass-engined Nazi slot car" is always going to have inherent dynamic disadvantages because of the weight distribution. The 911 has always been a successful sportscar despite its basic lay-out as much as because of it.