2019 TCR UK rumours and discussion

[Alessio]

Originally Posted by sceptic

It's only a false start if it's observed by a judge of fact and if that judge of fact notifies the clerk of the course within a certain time/number of laps (delete as applicable).

If nobody sees you do it, it's not a false start.

Seems glaring to miss though...

If you base everything off of Wikipedia, the standings make sense. Everyone competing to the TCT points regulations and TCR cars competing within their own sub-category to TCR points regulations. But there's no proof that they are even the correct regulations, so who knows truthfully..and why a badge should have any interference on what a car is or isn't is beyond me - it's a TCR car, SEAT or Cupra.

TCR Australia is what this series could have been, had it been sorted from the very beginning. Stewart Lines' attempts, even if they could have worked, are far too late to salvage TCR as its own series.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I'll tell you what. The racing may be poorly supported and a bit lack-lustre, but it's certainly an entertaining thread this!

Now this is true. We could have the Sensible and Informed Debate Championship awarding points based on distance from the poster to the nearest field containing one or more goats.

We also simultaneously have the Not Got A Bloody Clue What Is Going On Championship to which most of us are in good points paying positions.

Lets not forget the Taking the Mickey But Less So Than TCRUK Championship sponsored by Stewart Lines. BTCC Bloke has a number of podiums whilst I'm too confused to know which championship I'm in.

And lest not forget The Long Since Given Up On This Rubbish and Gone To Watch Cars Going Round the Roundabout Outside Tescos Instead Championship. Currently Mr Magoo is winning as he can't find the exit...

[Alfisti]

Newsflash: Mr Magoo disqualified as the Honda badge has fallen off the back of his Honda. So he's now in pole position for the Something Else or Other Championship.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by touring fan01

why do the organisers make the non-tcr cars put the tcr uk championship stickers on them?!

apart from it confusing the 5 people watching its probably against trade descriptions act because they are not even in the tcr uk championship.

“Organisers” ? Bit strong isn’t it?...

[btccbloke]

Originally Posted by Alessio

Stewart Lines' attempts, even if they could have worked, are far too late to salvage TCR as its own series.

This is something I struggle with -I know running the cars costs money, but this guy has been in BTCC as a driver and running a team for 2/3 years, he was one of the few who ran a whole season in TCR UK, he knows the fanbase yet he doesnt seem to have made enough contacts and mates over the last 4 or 5 years to get any interest from them to give any indication there is the commitment to be running this properly.

[kipper]

Originally Posted by redshoes

Are they?

TCT website has the DRAFT regs prior to the merger, so no longer valid.

BRSCC website has the published regs, but section 1.6 which should list the points structure just shows N/A

Or is there some other set of regs?

The draft set on the TCT are merely that - a draft. In addition, to the scoring system anomaly, the organising club is wrong and race dates are missing. I've no idea as to whether they were ever submitted to MSUK for approval, but they are not applicable to this season.

The set on the BRSCC have been approved by MSUK so are seemingly the most relevant. The relatively interesting thing is that it has been given a MSUK series number. This means that the TCT competitors are contesting a collection of races run to the same rulebook, with no cumulative scoring. This explains the 'N/A' for scoring.

TCR UK is, for whatever reason, a championship. Therefore there is scoring from race to race as set out in the regulations.

I've no idea how the Wikipedia tables have been derived but, as far as TCT goes, it's not particularly relevant.

[btccbloke]

Originally Posted by kipper

The draft set on the TCT are merely that - a draft. In addition, to the scoring system anomaly, the organising club is wrong and race dates are missing. I've no idea as to whether they were ever submitted to MSUK for approval, but they are not applicable to this season.

The set on the BRSCC have been approved by MSUK so are seemingly the most relevant. The relatively interesting thing is that it has been given a MSUK series number. This means that the TCT competitors are contesting a collection of races run to the same rulebook, with no cumulative scoring. This explains the 'N/A' for scoring.

TCR UK is, for whatever reason, a championship. Therefore there is scoring from race to race as set out in the regulations.

I've no idea how the Wikipedia tables have been derived but, as far as TCT goes, it's not particularly relevant.

Well as stated above, the TCR UK website mentioned Henry Neal leading the Touring Car Trophy so is he leading a championship? or should it have just read "Henry Neal is also there to help make up the numbers driving a car that no longer qualifies for any series and has beat some of our cars"

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by kipper

TCR UK is, for whatever reason, a championship. Therefore there is scoring from race to race as set out in the regulations.

If TCR UK are still running as a championship then there must be a separate set of regs with a separate MSA approval number. If that's the case then both permit numbers should be listed in the programme, assuming anyone here has one to check.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by btccbloke

Well as stated above, the TCR UK website mentioned Henry Neal leading the Touring Car Trophy so is he leading a championship?

I wouldn't believe anything on the TCR UK website. I don't think their PR team have any more of a clue what is going on that we do.

[Alessio]

https://brscc.co.uk/wp-content/uploa...hed-Copy-2.pdf

Well, these are the published regulations for TCT...

1.1 TITLE & JURISDICTION:

The Dunlop Touring Car Trophy Series is organised and administered by British Racing & Sports Car
Club (BRSCC) and promoted by Maximum Group in accordance with the General Regulations of
Motorsport UK (incorporating the provisions of the International Sporting Code of the FIA) and these
Series Regulations.
Motorsport UK Series Permit No: RS2019/075
Race Status: National A
Motorsport UK Series Grade: C

There's also only one use of the word 'TCR' in the document, so I guess that pretty much sums it up.

The TCR UK official website is practically derelict too...

[antnee]

Just had a thought around the TCT points missing in the released regs - doesn't a series have to have been run for a number of years before being awarded championship status by the MSA/MSUK?

[S griffin]

Who knows what would have happened if Gow was in charge. TBH I think even he would find this series a struggle to get right

[btccbloke]

Originally Posted by antnee

Just had a thought around the TCT points missing in the released regs - doesn't a series have to have been run for a number of years before being awarded championship status by the MSA/MSUK?

TCT is only a trophy apparently not a championship but you would still need to amass points to win said trophy (which im guessing Stewart Lines has been out and got from Timpsons - probably a small one with a darts player on it).

Clio Cup isnt "Clio Cup Championship" but you still need to get points to win the prizes

[btccbloke]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Who knows what would have happened if Gow was in charge. TBH I think even he would find this series a struggle to get right

Lets be fair, BTCC was on its knees in 2003/2004 with about a dozen cars, and that was just after the equally baffling "production class" era, which also served up some strange understanding of what was going on coming off of the back of the super touring era, But he managed to turn that round within a couple of seasons.
Like I said before I am amazed Stewart hasn't got enough friends and contacts over 3 seasons in BTCC and a season in TCR (+ his previous racing) to get some more cars, well known drivers, or sponsors out there now and again to boost the series a little.
He knows the target audience, I'm sure if he managed to get the likes of Rob Austin (come on they want to develop the Alfa), Dan Welch, Mat Jackson or other fan favorites no longer in the other series to turn out even for 1 off events people would sit up and want to watch it. The question for me is why hasnt he gone this route, drivers people know attracts people, random drivers that the general armchair viewer has never heard of running round in confusing classes with no idea if they are competing to win anything doesn't.

[sceptic]

Originally Posted by btccbloke

Well as stated above, the TCR UK website mentioned Henry Neal leading the Touring Car Trophy so is he leading a championship? or should it have just read "Henry Neal is also there to help make up the numbers driving a car that no longer qualifies for any series and has beat some of our cars"

As the TCT isn't a championship, and doesn't have points, then he is leading it by virtue of having the most wins.

He won race 2 at Oulton, both races at Donington, and he won race 1 at Croft.

Alex Day and Richard Woods have one win each, putting them joint second.

If Neal wins either race at Brands Hatch, then the Trophy is his.

[kipper]

Originally Posted by antnee

Just had a thought around the TCT points missing in the released regs - doesn't a series have to have been run for a number of years before being awarded championship status by the MSA/MSUK?

For most stuff, yes. However, MSUK have been known to grant something championship status in its first year if 'special' circumstances apply. Generally this is because of perceived levels of interests, profile or manufacturer backing. Examples include BRDC F4/F3, Ginetta GT4 Supercup (of G50 Cup as it was then known) and, weirdly given the context of this discussion, TCR UK.

Originally Posted by btccbloke

TCT is only a trophy apparently not a championship but you would still need to amass points to win said trophy (which im guessing Stewart Lines has been out and got from Timpsons - probably a small one with a darts player on it).

Clio Cup isnt "Clio Cup Championship" but you still need to get points to win the prizes

The name of the competition is not of particular relevance at this juncture. Basically, MSUK class everything as either a championship or a series. A championship awards points for each race and the accumulation of these will be used to define the winner of the championship. Clio Cup is registered as a championship and therefore, can have a winner (irrespective of the fact that the name doesn't feature the word championship).

A series (again irrespective of what it is called - the Formula Ford Champion of Brands has multiple races, but is not a championship) is a set of races run to the same rule book with each race being stand alone. Therefore, whilst TCT can give a prize to the 'most meritorious driver of 2019' (or somesuch), who might have happened to have won the most races - they would not be able to describe the driver as the TCT Champion/Winner of 2019.

[btccbloke]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BzpvLpEA...=1an8iwco0svyr

can someone please tell Henry Neal he isnt leading a "championship"??

Another mixed weekend for us in @tcr_uk_series @touringcartrophy ! Came away with another P2 in Race 1��! We sadly got a puncture a few laps into race 2 which meant we had to retire. .
We’re still leading the @touringcartrophy championship, bring on @brandshatchofficial !

[redshoes]

I think you'll find that Neal is joint leader. I have the same number of championship points as he does.

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by redshoes

I think you'll find that Neal is joint leader. I have the same number of championship points as he does.

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by btccbloke

Lets be fair, BTCC was on its knees in 2003/2004 with about a dozen cars, and that was just after the equally baffling "production class" era, which also served up some strange understanding of what was going on coming off of the back of the super touring era, But he managed to turn that round within a couple of seasons.
Like I said before I am amazed Stewart hasn't got enough friends and contacts over 3 seasons in BTCC and a season in TCR (+ his previous racing) to get some more cars, well known drivers, or sponsors out there now and again to boost the series a little.
He knows the target audience, I'm sure if he managed to get the likes of Rob Austin (come on they want to develop the Alfa), Dan Welch, Mat Jackson or other fan favorites no longer in the other series to turn out even for 1 off events people would sit up and want to watch it. The question for me is why hasnt he gone this route, drivers people know attracts people, random drivers that the general armchair viewer has never heard of running round in confusing classes with no idea if they are competing to win anything doesn't.

It was in 2005 we were down to a dozen cars, which coming off a great season in 04 was a bit of a shock. But by the end of 06 it was the highest it had been since the 90s

[porsche962fan]

this was the grid at start of 2005 .... and the small privateers were seconds off the pace

3 Astra Sports Hatch
3 SEAT Toledo
2 Integra
1 Civic
1 MG
1 Lexus
1 Astra Coupe

TOTAL 12 but due to very slow rear enders it was more a 9-10 car race

and that's it

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by redshoes

I think you'll find that Neal is joint leader. I have the same number of championship points as he does.

And you didn't waste any petrol or bash up other peoples cars in the process! 😀

[btccbloke]

so since we were told this isnt confusing what have we learned....

1. We dont know if the regulations on the website are correct

2. We dont know if there are points awarded for TCT or how they are allocated

3. The main promoter (TCR UK) is an unreliable source of information

4. The Wikipedia page championship table appears to be nothing more than someones fantasy league

5. Henry Neal believes he is leading a championship that may or may not exist

6. All cars carry TCR UK logos regardless of their class and we are not sure why which makes identifying the cars confusing

7. 3 weeks on we still arent sure why Max Coates wins were not classed as TCR UK wins in a TCR car

8. We dont know what drivers (if any) will be at Brands, what they will drive, what class they will be in or what they might win



Sorry but nobody can honestly say the series is straight forward to get into

Oh also.... The Spa round seems to have disappeared?

[redshoes]

Don't worry. TCR Guru has put out a social media post calling for more teams and drivers to enter the Brands Hatch round, so the series is saved.

[btccbloke]

Originally Posted by btccbloke

Oh also.... The Spa round seems to have disappeared?

Ahh ok i found it, looks like only Lewis Kent went!


But I saw on the site: https://www.maximummotorsport.uk/touring-car-trophy

OPTIONAL INTERNATIONAL ROUND
JUNE 8 - 9. Spa - Open to TCR Cars only. Trophies will be awarded by TCT but the points will not count towards to the TCT Championship.

So there ARE points counting towards the TCT "Championship"? so is Neal or Turkington leading it on wins or points now? :-/