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Old 15 Aug 2009, 16:32 (Ref:2521925)   #26
betablocker
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i cant believe they have thrown out one of the best cars and best teams in the championship because someone didnt write -and national -in the regs. this surely proves that the worlds gone stupid.

in any case surely the ascari isnt a 'proper' production car. ascari has been wound up and the factory closed so it must surely now fall under national as its production numbers are zero which is less than the mosler!!!!! and they only produce a few a year nowadays. cant wait for the jones brothers to be chucked out next season as well. but kinda like ferrari in f1 i bet they get away with it.
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Old 15 Aug 2009, 18:15 (Ref:2521961)   #27
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The Mosler gets banned thanks to people who race a Ascari. There are probably more Moslers built than Ascari's. From the start the homologation of the Ascari was dubious.

Motto of the Jones brothers: "If you can't beat them ban them".
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Old 15 Aug 2009, 18:31 (Ref:2521970)   #28
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I feel sorry for Martin, but as far as I can tell from the MSA report the blame really lies with SRO. This is the British GT championship - the fact that the car is eligible for racing in Belgium is irrelevent. And I'm suprised that a team with Rollcentre's experience have raced a car that they know doesn't meet the regulations without having a concrete waiver from the organisers,

And whilst the Jones brothers may justifiably take a lot of flak over this, let's not pretend that Rollcentre are angels here. As their press release alluded too there is bad blood between the teams and the Ascari team have been the subject of appeals themselves. It appears that at the moment they have a better leg to stand on.
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Old 15 Aug 2009, 18:40 (Ref:2521972)   #29
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Can I just say that I don't give a flying flip about the homologation, and would just love to see more of these cars racing.

On the technicality, either get the scrutineering/eligibility sorted from the off, or if you're the organizer and fouled up, shut your trap and let the series be decided on the track.
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Old 15 Aug 2009, 18:42 (Ref:2521973)   #30
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I can't actually believe that SRO would actually listen to the *****ing and whining of the Joke Brothers. The Mosler is a fantastic car.



Wait, since Mosler was banned from the start in FIA GT/GT3, I shouldn't be surprised at all.


It's the remaining Ascari team crying about the Mosler. I don't understand the irony of this at all. An out of production car complaining about an almost out of production car.


Just imagine if Peugeot got their way and got the Audis banned.......


Maybe the Joke Bros. can't stand the fact that they're getting beat by "American" make?

The Jones Bros....The Peugeot of GT racing.
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Old 15 Aug 2009, 18:48 (Ref:2521976)   #31
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Well, let's all head over to BritCar.

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Old 15 Aug 2009, 18:53 (Ref:2521981)   #32
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Judging by the lack of cars in the British GT, I think they already headed over.
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Old 15 Aug 2009, 19:08 (Ref:2521985)   #33
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I can't actually believe that SRO would actually listen to the *****ing and whining of the Joke Brothers. The Mosler is a fantastic car.



Wait, since Mosler was banned from the start in FIA GT/GT3, I shouldn't be surprised at all.


It's the remaining Ascari team crying about the Mosler. I don't understand the irony of this at all. An out of production car complaining about an almost out of production car.


Just imagine if Peugeot got their way and got the Audis banned.......


Maybe the Joke Bros. can't stand the fact that they're getting beat by "American" make?

The Jones Bros....The Peugeot of GT racing.
What the hell are you talking about?

Mosler's arent American, they never have been and never will be, the engine is american and it's a gem of an engine.

The irony is that a team have got another team banned for saying they're car is not homologated and is against the rule's, while the Ascari is directly contravening the rule's by running without 80 kilo's of ballast, whichever way you cut it, that is a LOT of weight, they are also running without the 20mm ride height reg either, again, that's quite a difference in racing term's.

Basically, the Jones Brothers cant say anything imo about rule breaking, when they are directly contravening the rule's themselves, its even written in the SRO GT3 Regs that the Mosler can race, there is rather a lot of egg on the jones brothers faces at the moment. To reiterate what i said earlier on as well, i hope the British GT goes under after this shameful display of sportsmanship, a team and a brand, which has supported the British GT for such a long time, and which are propping up the championship as well, its a disgrace that this has happened, the title of British GT should pass to the GT Cup championship instead and use their rules, team's etc instead.
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Old 15 Aug 2009, 19:08 (Ref:2521986)   #34
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RE: Britcar Good riddance I suppose.

Aren't Moslers built in the United States? Or at least the road car?

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Old 15 Aug 2009, 19:12 (Ref:2521987)   #35
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I'm pretty darn sure that they have a factory down in Florida, so yes, at least some of the Moslers are built over here.
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Old 15 Aug 2009, 19:27 (Ref:2521990)   #36
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winning and 11 car championship where your major major rivals are excluded - how truly proud one team will be on the 20th of September...
That's more or less what I said... and given that why any reputable team would waste their time continuing to compete in this farce of a championship beggars belief. From what I can see most spectators seem to be giving it a wide berth from here on in.

I remember sitting in the grandstands in Silverstone with my kid brother around 10 years ago as we watched Porsche GT1s, McLaren F1s etc... saying to him that the British GT championship was one of the premier sportscar series in the world at the time. Look at it now... how sad.
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Old 15 Aug 2009, 19:27 (Ref:2521991)   #37
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I'm pretty darn sure that they have a factory down in Florida, so yes, at least some of the Moslers are built over here.
my mistake in the post, half american half british, i assume the road version's are prepared in the states while the race version's are prepared over here in the UK, mainly now i think by Rollcentre Racing who i think, are the European agent for Mosler, somewhat surprised as i have never seen nor heard of Mosler's racing in the states, they have always had a big presence in British GT racing and more recently European GT Racing.
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Old 15 Aug 2009, 19:29 (Ref:2521992)   #38
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Mosler had a very small presence at the Daytona 24 before the rulebook was closed, and even then I think they were European teams using American shops and potentially American mechanics.

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Old 15 Aug 2009, 19:33 (Ref:2521994)   #39
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the Moslers that are racing over here and the ones that race in europe(mosler challenge ect) and the Thunder Asia Mosler are built in St.ives Cambs.
shorty is the MD for Mosler europe but Mosler is an american company.

Warren Mosler the founded it in 1985 and is president of Mosler Automotive.
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Old 15 Aug 2009, 19:43 (Ref:2522000)   #40
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Judging by the lack of cars in the British GT, I think they already headed over.
Yes it is true that Britcar and GT Cup UK have much bigger grids than British GT, but look at the quality of the latter 2 championships and compare them to what we have in British GT, personally I dont see anyone from Britcar or GT Cup UK getting anywhere near the British GT front runners. Quality over quantity wins for me every time, although admitedly it would be nice to have another 6-10 cars on the British GT grids.
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Old 15 Aug 2009, 19:51 (Ref:2522006)   #41
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I agree whole-heartedly SALEEN S7R, however, I think separating GT racing as much as possible from the SRO would be nice.

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Old 15 Aug 2009, 19:56 (Ref:2522011)   #42
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I agree whole-heartedly SALEEN S7R, however, I think separating GT racing as much as possible from the SRO would be nice.

Chris
Agreed regarding SRO. They do a decent enough job with FIA GT but for whatever reason they seem to have made quite a few big errors with other championships. Personally I would like to see the British GT championship remain alive and simply breakaway from SRO once again. I've been following British GT for around 10 years now and it would be a sad day for me personally if the British GT championship were to die.
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Old 15 Aug 2009, 20:08 (Ref:2522024)   #43
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I've been following British GT for around 10 years now and it would be a sad day for me personally if the British GT championship were to die.
I've been supporting it a lot longer than 10 years and I have to say this is among its worst ebbs... its all but dead.

There isn't enough room for multiple GT championships in this country. Please let sense prevail and get everyone into one single strong championship... as it used to be. If its not the 'SRO British GT Championship' so be it.
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Old 15 Aug 2009, 20:29 (Ref:2522034)   #44
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Yes it is true that Britcar and GT Cup UK have much bigger grids than British GT, but look at the quality of the latter 2 championships and compare them to what we have in British GT, personally I dont see anyone from Britcar or GT Cup UK getting anywhere near the British GT front runners. Quality over quantity wins for me every time, although admitedly it would be nice to have another 6-10 cars on the British GT grids.
not sure you can say this with all honesty...

GT cup this weekend:

Corvette C5R
Dodge Viper
Aston Martin DBRS9
BMW E45 M3 GTR
Porsche 997 GT3S
Ferrari 430 Challenge GT
Ferrari 430 Challenge GT
Lotus Exige
Ferrari 430 Challenge
Porsche 997 GT3 Cup
Ferrari 360 GTC
Ferrari 360 GTC
Ferrari 430 GT3
Porsche 997 GT3 Cup
Marcos Mantis
Porsche 996 GT3 Cup
Porsche 996 GT3 Cup
Porsche 996 GT3 Cup
Porsche 996 GT3 Cup
Porsche 996 GT3 Cup
Ferrari 430 Challenge GT
Porsche 996 GT3 Cup
Aston Martin GT4
TVR Cerbera GT
BMW M3 E46
Porsche 996 GT3 Cup
Porsche 944 Turbo
Aston Martin GT4
Aston Martin GT4
996 GT3 Cup
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Old 15 Aug 2009, 20:35 (Ref:2522037)   #45
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Please let sense prevail......
Blimey, now there's an optimist!
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Old 15 Aug 2009, 20:43 (Ref:2522041)   #46
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not sure you can say this with all honesty...

GT cup this weekend:

Corvette C5R
Dodge Viper
Aston Martin DBRS9
BMW E45 M3 GTR
Porsche 997 GT3S
Ferrari 430 Challenge GT
Ferrari 430 Challenge GT
Lotus Exige
Ferrari 430 Challenge
Porsche 997 GT3 Cup
Ferrari 360 GTC
Ferrari 360 GTC
Ferrari 430 GT3
Porsche 997 GT3 Cup
Marcos Mantis
Porsche 996 GT3 Cup
Porsche 996 GT3 Cup
Porsche 996 GT3 Cup
Porsche 996 GT3 Cup
Porsche 996 GT3 Cup
Ferrari 430 Challenge GT
Porsche 996 GT3 Cup
Aston Martin GT4
TVR Cerbera GT
BMW M3 E46
Porsche 996 GT3 Cup
Porsche 944 Turbo
Aston Martin GT4
Aston Martin GT4
996 GT3 Cup

Now that's a grid. I wonder who runs the 360 GTCs, C5-R, TVR Cerbera, and E45 M3? Is the Viper a GTS-R or Comp. Coupe? What are the classes?

Yeah I know, too many questions
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Old 15 Aug 2009, 21:02 (Ref:2522047)   #47
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not sure you can say this with all honesty...

GT cup this weekend:

Corvette C5R
Dodge Viper
Aston Martin DBRS9
BMW E45 M3 GTR
Porsche 997 GT3S
Ferrari 430 Challenge GT
Ferrari 430 Challenge GT
Lotus Exige
Ferrari 430 Challenge
Porsche 997 GT3 Cup
Ferrari 360 GTC
Ferrari 360 GTC
Ferrari 430 GT3
Porsche 997 GT3 Cup
Marcos Mantis
Porsche 996 GT3 Cup
Porsche 996 GT3 Cup
Porsche 996 GT3 Cup
Porsche 996 GT3 Cup
Porsche 996 GT3 Cup
Ferrari 430 Challenge GT
Porsche 996 GT3 Cup
Aston Martin GT4
TVR Cerbera GT
BMW M3 E46
Porsche 996 GT3 Cup
Porsche 944 Turbo
Aston Martin GT4
Aston Martin GT4
996 GT3 Cup
First of all the Corvette is not a C5R lol, secondly yes that grid is large and that is good for a championship. Look at how many of the cars are actual top level GT3 specifcation though, sure they might be GT3 cars but they arent in the same league as those of what we do have in British GT, most of the cars entered above are older style GT3 cup machinery with a couple of current spec GT3 cars thrown in there too.

Get the British GT grid and race them alongside that grid and I bet you that 90% of the British GT GT3 runners would finish ahead of the GT cup front runners. British GT is aimed at Pro/amatuer drivers and teams, GT cup UK is, as always stated by the organisers, for gentlemen drivers and smaller teams. As a direct result it is always going to be more likely to have larger grids in GT cup UK and series like it such as Britcar. The competition is of a higher standard in British GT and as a result the costs are higher to keep up with the front running teams and the economic climate the way it is certainly isnt helping British GT at the moment, its better for smaller teams and gentleman drivers to race in smaller series, but the recession wont last forever and British GT will be stronger once again at the end of it hopefully. IMO.
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Old 15 Aug 2009, 22:39 (Ref:2522088)   #48
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Get the British GT grid and race them alongside that grid and I bet you that 90% of the British GT GT3 runners would finish ahead of the GT cup front runners. British GT is aimed at Pro/amatuer drivers and teams, GT cup UK is, as always stated by the organisers, for gentlemen drivers and smaller teams. As a direct result it is always going to be more likely to have larger grids in GT cup UK and series like it such as Britcar. The competition is of a higher standard in British GT and as a result the costs are higher IMO.
Why don't you do that? What your comments are is totally illogical--so what if the bigger budget teams come out in front--that is so in just about every category worldwide. If they were combine thee at least would be a decent grid.numbers make stability for a series-- tends to bring more numbers and greater relevence and interest to all. If the bigger budget teams are going to come out in front-what do they have to lose? Nothing-the difference is that they have more cars behind them. The lesser teams would get beaten ,at least they would still have cars behind them!
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Old 15 Aug 2009, 23:24 (Ref:2522097)   #49
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Why don't you do that? What your comments are is totally illogical--so what if the bigger budget teams come out in front--that is so in just about every category worldwide. If they were combine thee at least would be a decent grid.numbers make stability for a series-- tends to bring more numbers and greater relevence and interest to all. If the bigger budget teams are going to come out in front-what do they have to lose? Nothing-the difference is that they have more cars behind them. The lesser teams would get beaten ,at least they would still have cars behind them!
Series like GT Cup UK have no place on the GT ladder, it is a series for gentleman drivers and older GT style cars with a couple of modern cars thrown in, if the organisers deem the cars not too fast and not too likely to dominate, they race in the invitation class. The bulk of the front runners are Cup and Challenge cars, which are different to current level GT3 machinery and much cheaper to run.

British GT is aimed at drivers and teams who venture both to and from the international stage on a somewhat regular basis, sure there are amatuer drivers but they are top line amatuers and not mainly the likes of what you get in GT cup UK. Once the recession is over numbers will return somewhat to British GT, perhaps not on the same level as GT Cup UK but then the series isnt aimed with affordable racing as its main policy, GT cup UK is.
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Old 16 Aug 2009, 00:27 (Ref:2522112)   #50
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Now that's a grid. I wonder who runs the 360 GTCs, C5-R, TVR Cerbera, and E45 M3? Is the Viper a GTS-R or Comp. Coupe? What are the classes?

Yeah I know, too many questions
Right, here goes...

The 360 GTCs are NOT actual GT2 spec 360s, merely listed as such; I believe they are Challenge cars. As stated before, the C5R is NOT an all singing, all dancing GT1 spec car, the Cerbera is probably a homemade job, the M3 is a "GTR" previously seen in Britcar, and the Viper is a CC - which has raced in BGT in the past.

To elaborate on SALEEN S7R's point, the standard of the teams and drivers in GT Cup is several notches down on that of British GT; in fact, the whole reason GT Cup was set up was only to allow older style Cup class cars a home in which to race - not to provide a home for contempary GT3 and GT4 cars, which it has now become!
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