NZTC 2015/2016

[Goat Boy]

I think I recall somebody coming on here some years ago now complaining that they had either won or bought hot laps from TKR which they never received - or did I dream it...?

[bluespur]

Might be interesting to get a list of anyone who actually got a ride and their thoughts on the experience

[Ugy]

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

I think I recall somebody coming on here some years ago now complaining that they had either won or bought hot laps from TKR which they never received - or did I dream it...?

Yep me. He rang me up at home and took my credit card details and told me he would get back to me. First time i have ever been conned and should be the last.
I was told by someone after i had paid for the laps it was a bad move.

Anyone that deals with this POS gets what they deserve.

[NZSTfan]

Originally Posted by Ugy

Yep me. He rang me up at home and took my credit card details and told me he would get back to me. .

Ouch dude that sux. Did he destroy your CC details after he/they failed to deliver? By law a 'MOTO' transaction (Mail Order Telephone Order) must see the vendor keeping no records whatsoever of someones CC details. The CC payment is often done via a third party such as paystation with a 2 or 3% surcharge. I do this for my business, and it is impossible for me to keep a customers CC details because of the system I have in place. Vendors can get in big trouble if they are found to be in breach of the vendor rules.

I hope for you that that was the last of it, and your CC balance remained untouched, but it does serve as an excellent reminder to think first about who you are giving CC details too, especially at this time of year when people are trying to fleece others.

[eskymsport]

I do know someone who has had a hot lap this year with Craig Baird in the supertourer at Taupo and thought it was amazing and was treated very well by David Johns and the crew. I am by no means a fan of TKR or agree with how he has treated many people in the past, but in this instance they did a very good job.

[NZSTfan]

I hear that some testing is happening at HD on Friday to trial some aero tweaks for the class 1 cars. As I understand it, some rear wings are going to be swapped around to see if there is any advantage with current aero packages. I am assuming that this may see a ST wing on the back of a TLX, and maybe vice versa. I think they are trying to close the gap in terms of mid corner speed.

Anyone else heard about this?

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by NZSTfan

I hear that some testing is happening at HD on Friday to trial some aero tweaks for the class 1 cars. As I understand it, some rear wings are going to be swapped around to see if there is any advantage with current aero packages. I am assuming that this may see a ST wing on the back of a TLX, and maybe vice versa. I think they are trying to close the gap in terms of mid corner speed.

Anyone else heard about this?

Stu, not vice versa, the TLX guys are looking at way's and means to close the gap, so a suggestion was made that perhaps the V8ST rear wing might help provide more rear downforce, which is why the Lance Hughes TLX car is going to fit an ST rear wing up and test it back to back.

There are a several small advantages the ST cars have over the TLX car's such as larger front and rear brake rotor's, 16mm wider rims, digressive dampers etc, all of which can be used by the TLX cars if they want to approve the use of those components.

[NZSTfan]

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

Stu, not vice versa, the TLX guys are looking at way's and means to close the gap, so a suggestion was made that perhaps the V8ST rear wing might help provide more rear downforce, which is why the Lance Hughes TLX car is going to fit an ST rear wing up and test it back to back.

There are a several small advantages the ST cars have over the TLX car's such as larger front and rear brake rotor's, 16mm wider rims, digressive dampers etc, all of which can be used by the TLX cars if they want to approve the use of those components.

Thanks for the confirmation Mark. In your opinion do you think an ST spec wing will add much more down force? I know the SC drivers who have driven ST say the aero package is quite nice compared to v8sc , so I wonder how much impact it will have on the rear of the TLX. And if it increases the mid corner speed.

I'm relation to your other points about brakes etc...I couldn't agree more. But on the flipside, I wonder what an ST would be like with adjustable this, that and everything. Not what a ST is designed for but interesting nonetheless.

I'll be there on Friday to have a looksee..
Cheers
Stu

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by NZSTfan

Thanks for the confirmation Mark. In your opinion do you think an ST spec wing will add much more down force? I know the SC drivers who have driven ST say the aero package is quite nice compared to v8sc , so I wonder how much impact it will have on the rear of the TLX. And if it increases the mid corner speed.

I'm relation to your other points about brakes etc...I couldn't agree more. But on the flipside, I wonder what an ST would be like with adjustable this, that and everything. Not what a ST is designed for but interesting nonetheless.

I'll be there on Friday to have a looksee..
Cheers
Stu

Obviously Stu if the v8ST regulations allowed ST competitors the freedoms that the TLX currently enjoy they would be significantly faster than they are now.

However thats not the point, the point of the integration of the 2 V8 Categories is to allow the TLX to do what ever they need to do to bring their car up to the same performance potential as the currant fixed regulation of the ST cars.

Nick Ross car is clearly as fast if not faster in a straight line than Simon Evans, so the fact that Nick can't lap in the same lap time as Simon means that either Nick is just not capable or that Nicks team have not optimised their cars set-up.

Its a subject of fierce debate and not helped because there is obvious disparity between most of the TLX cars. At least Lance Hughes seem's to want to try ways to improve the performance of his two cars, which is a step in the right direction least in my opinion.

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

Obviously Stu if the v8ST regulations allowed ST competitors the freedoms that the TLX currently enjoy they would be significantly faster than they are now.

However thats not the point, the point of the integration of the 2 V8 Categories is to allow the TLX to do what ever they need to do to bring their car up to the same performance potential as the currant fixed regulation of the ST cars.

Nick Ross car is clearly as fast if not faster in a straight line than Simon Evans, so the fact that Nick can't lap in the same lap time as Simon means that either Nick is just not capable or that Nicks team have not optimised their cars set-up.

Its a subject of fierce debate and not helped because there is obvious disparity between most of the TLX cars. At least Lance Hughes seem's to want to try ways to improve the performance of his two cars, which is a step in the right direction least in my opinion.

Think you hit the nail on the head there mate

The LS7 has a big torque advantage over the LS3 which means getting more power down more quickly out of the corners, but there's not a massive difference in top end BHP and you might surmise that perhaps Nick's car is a little more slippery than a Falcodore hence the difference. I do realize there's a lot more to it than that with regard to power delivery but it is a factor on a twisty circuit.

Question: Is Simon Evans' car slower in a straight line than other ST's?

[BackSeat Driver]

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

Question: Is Simon Evans' car slower in a straight line than other ST's?

Depends on angle of the rear wing.

[Goat Boy]

Ah, so that is adjustable then - you'd want it flatter at Puke I'd imagine.

[Jerico]

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

Ah, so that is adjustable then - you'd want it flatter at Puke I'd imagine.

You still may want a little wing for over the mountain.

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

Obviously Stu if the v8ST regulations allowed ST competitors the freedoms that the TLX currently enjoy they would be significantly faster than they are now.

However thats not the point, the point of the integration of the 2 V8 Categories is to allow the TLX to do what ever they need to do to bring their car up to the same performance potential as the currant fixed regulation of the ST cars.

Nick Ross car is clearly as fast if not faster in a straight line than Simon Evans, so the fact that Nick can't lap in the same lap time as Simon means that either Nick is just not capable or that Nicks team have not optimised their cars set-up.

Its a subject of fierce debate and not helped because there is obvious disparity between most of the TLX cars. At least Lance Hughes seem's to want to try ways to improve the performance of his two cars, which is a step in the right direction least in my opinion.

I am reliably informed that fierce debate did indeed rage at Hampton Downs yesterday when one of Lance Hughes TLX cars tested the ST rear wing back to back, and found an immediate gain of nearly a second, 8/10's of a second, to be precise.

Of real concern is that instead of simply allowing the TLX competitors that want to run an ST rear wing and get an immiedate gain in performance for not much more than the cost of a set of tyres, apparently Nick Ross was suggesting that all the ST's should have to run the TLX rear wing!!!

I was not at the test and so cannot attest to this as being a fact, but if thats truly what Nick really said and think's it does not bode well for good faith between the parties.

If the same performance gain could be made on Jason Bargwanna's car the would really put the "Cat amongst the Pigeon's" so to speak.

[superstock]

has both classes lost or will lose all creditability with true petrol head?

I well remember the glory days of nzv8s , 30 plus cars ,sponsor's queuing up.

it outshone most other classes .

is the classe/s to damaged , mostly no names for anyone to really care

most of the sts seem parked.

hopefully it sorts itself out but.....

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by superstock

I well remember the glory days of nzv8s , 30 plus cars ,sponsor's queuing up.

That was then, this is now (as the saying goes). The world is a different place now SS.

[pukekoheracer]

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

I am reliably informed that fierce debate did indeed rage at Hampton Downs yesterday when one of Lance Hughes TLX cars tested the ST rear wing back to back, and found an immediate gain of nearly a second, 8/10's of a second, to be precise.

Of real concern is that instead of simply allowing the TLX competitors that want to run an ST rear wing and get an immiedate gain in performance for not much more than the cost of a set of tyres, apparently Nick Ross was suggesting that all the ST's should have to run the TLX rear wing!!!

I was not at the test and so cannot attest to this as being a fact, but if thats truly what Nick really said and think's it does not bode well for good faith between the parties.

If the same performance gain could be made on Jason Bargwanna's car the would really put the "Cat amongst the Pigeon's" so to speak.

Just goes to show how what a bad job they did designing the TLX in the first place

[MRXtreme]

Originally Posted by pukekoheracer

Just goes to show how what a bad job they did designing the TLX in the first place

Cheers for your 2 cents on a lovely Sunday. I think it has more to do with the size and position of the wing.

[Goat Boy]

Er, yep...?

Well regardless of the politics I enjoyed the racing at HD.

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by MRXtreme

Cheers for your 2 cents on a lovely Sunday. I think it has more to do with the size and position of the wing.

Nick,

The ST rear wing was designed by an ex Mclaren Aerodynamicist and its position on the car modelled by Pace Innovations using CFD Computational Fluid dynamic's.

So I think PR comments are valid, but he could have used less offensive language which is undoubtedly what 'sparked' you up.

Regardless of why the ST wing has proved more efficient in back to back testing of a VE body shape, the ST wing produced a significant gain in track time at a cost of little more than a set of new tyre's, so logically at least the TLX VE Commodores should be allowed to use the ST wing if they wish.

I understand that New Zealand Supertourers are happy to lend Mike Shaw a rear wing to copy so there appears to be a great deal of goodwill going on here which is good to see.

[CDM]

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

Nick Ross car is clearly as fast if not faster in a straight line than Simon Evans, so the fact that Nick can't lap in the same lap time as Simon means that either Nick is just not capable or that Nicks team have not optimised their cars set-up.

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

Of real concern is that instead of simply allowing the TLX competitors that want to run an ST rear wing and get an immiedate gain in performance for not much more than the cost of a set of tyres, apparently Nick Ross was suggesting that all the ST's should have to run the TLX rear wing!!!

Wow you got a real beef with Nick Ross huh… Unsure why as his team have certainly done their share to keep this series going!


Anyway...

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

I am reliably informed that fierce debate did indeed rage at Hampton Downs yesterday when one of Lance Hughes TLX cars tested the ST rear wing back to back, and found an immediate gain of nearly a second, 8/10's of a second, to be precise.

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

Of real concern is that instead of simply allowing the TLX competitors that want to run an ST rear wing and get an immiedate gain in performance for not much more than the cost of a set of tyres, apparently Nick Ross was suggesting that all the ST's should have to run the TLX rear wing!!!
I was not at the test and so cannot attest to this as being a fact, but if thats truly what Nick really said and think's it does not bode well for good faith between the parties.
If the same performance gain could be made on Jason Bargwanna's car the would really put the "Cat amongst the Pigeon's" so to speak.

Why should the TLX’s have to change & why cant it be the ST’s change to a TLX rear wing??

Ultimately its not all about speed, it should be about close racing. There are also the TL guys to consider as in so many classes when the faster cars go faster, the slower cars go home. And where the NZV8’s currently sit with just over 20 cars representing 3 classes, they certainly cant afford to loose a single car!

Other factors to consider are obviously the price of the wing & associated parts and also ease of fitment etc, but I would have thought if the class was truly democratic they would just put it to the vote from all the competitors.

Unless of course some people are out there still trying to line their own pockets rather than doing things for the good of the sport.

[MRXtreme]

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

Nick,

The ST rear wing was designed by an ex Mclaren Aerodynamicist and its position on the car modelled by Pace Innovations using CFD Computational Fluid dynamic's.

So I think PR comments are valid, but he could have used less offensive language which is undoubtedly what 'sparked' you up.

Regardless of why the ST wing has proved more efficient in back to back testing of a VE body shape, the ST wing produced a significant gain in track time at a cost of little more than a set of new tyre's, so logically at least the TLX VE Commodores should be allowed to use the ST wing if they wish.

I understand that New Zealand Supertourers are happy to lend Mike Shaw a rear wing to copy so there appears to be a great deal of goodwill going on here which is good to see.

We didn't need to go through all that extra design work, as NZV8 were to borrow Supercar spec wing mounts straight from the source. Then we adapted the older TL wing element that Mike Shaw already had a mould for. And back then that's all we needed. How we are trying to close the gap between the two types of cars.

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by MRXtreme

We didn't need to go through all that extra design work, as NZV8 were to borrow Supercar spec wing mounts straight from the source. Then we adapted the older TL wing element that Mike Shaw already had a mould for. And back then that's all we needed. How we are trying to close the gap between the two types of cars.

Agreed Nick, we went through all that back when we did all the testing with the V8ST prototype which was bodied like Andrew McKensie's car with a bog standard Australian V8 Supercar car kit, and it was not until V8 Supercars wrote to us and told us they owned the intellectual property in the front splitter and the rear wing that Pace hired an Australian ex Mclaren Aerodynamicist [can't recall his name] to design a new front splitter and rear wing that would give us a performance gain and belong to V8ST.

This represented a fairly significant investment and proved to be a performance gain 4 years ago, so the fact that New Zealand Supertourers are offering to share that technology with TLX at no cost other than the TLX guys buying a Mike Shaw clone at the right money is surely a good thing don't you think?

[Goat Boy]

Why should the TLX’s have to change & why cant it be the ST’s change to a TLX rear wing??

Ultimately its not all about speed, it should be about close racing. There are also the TL guys to consider as in so many classes when the faster cars go faster, the slower cars go home. And where the NZV8’s currently sit with just over 20 cars representing 3 classes, they certainly cant afford to loose(sic) a single car!

Simple answer to that, there are a grand total of 5 TLX cars running in this series, whereas there are up to 19 ST's out there somewhere and it would be good to get them all in with minimal cost. If the ST rear wing can be copied cheaply and effectively and it makes the TLX cars faster, then that's great.

The TL's could even have it if it was going to make them lap a bit quicker and the teams wanted the performance gain.

[Blackpearl]

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

Nick,

The ST rear wing was designed by an ex Mclaren Aerodynamicist and its position on the car modelled by Pace Innovations using CFD Computational Fluid dynamic's.

So I think PR comments are valid, but he could have used less offensive language which is undoubtedly what 'sparked' you up.

Regardless of why the ST wing has proved more efficient in back to back testing of a VE body shape, the ST wing produced a significant gain in track time at a cost of little more than a set of new tyre's, so logically at least the TLX VE Commodores should be allowed to use the ST wing if they wish.

I understand that New Zealand Supertourers are happy to lend Mike Shaw a rear wing to copy so there appears to be a great deal of goodwill going on here which is good to see.

Here is the the problem, it works for the ve and not the fords. Why use a wing that favours one car.