The broad sunlit uplands of next March. Yeah, really. .

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Certainly not! With GB plate, International Driving Permits, Trailer registration and Union Jack tee shirt, I’m good to go......

Just need the beer belly and the tattoos, then! Oh, sorry, that's just the women! You just need, in addition to the aforementioned, a knotted handkerchief and socks to go with your sandals to complete your apparel!

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Just need the beer belly and the tattoos, then! Oh, sorry, that's just the women! You just need, in addition to the aforementioned, a knotted handkerchief and socks to go with your sandals to complete your apparel!

You just reminded me that my late Dad, who was quite bald, used a knotted hanky to protect his shiny head from the sun..... Definitely not a socks with sandals man though!

[MGDavid]

Always amuses me how when faced with a few facts some people simply revert to ridicule albeit in a gentle and friendly way

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by zefarelly

as far as CL is concerned, over 68% of Brightonians voted remain, she is respecting the will of the vast majority of her constituents, unlike most MP's agreed. She is being honest to her constituents, herself and her party, and un like most, hasn't changed her mind or opinion to suit her own agenda whenever she felt like it. Integrity is the word, most politicians and commentators lack it.

Problem is, it wasn't a constituency vote. Her constituency is the whole country in this case, not just Brighton.

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[midgetman]

>>>>>Always amuses me how when faced with a few facts some people simply revert to ridicule albeit in a gentle and friendly way


My Facebook feed is full of people from both sides saying exactly the same as you. Giving facts that match their preference, none of which can be countered.

The referendum boiled down to possible short term economic problems versus possible long term sovereignty/economic gain. You pays yer money and you takes yer choice.



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[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

Always amuses me how when faced with a few facts some people simply revert to ridicule albeit in a gentle and friendly way

If that is directed at me, can I gently remind you that I have already admitted that I voted on the losing side of the referendum. However, I accepted from day one that the UK would be leaving the EU, and all I wanted, and still do, is for the politicians to get on and complete the, so we were told, simple job.

Regarding facts in this debacle as it has become, they will only become verifiable facts once we have actually fully left and that won't happen for at least another two years whilst we are still in the interim period. And I doubt very much that the prosperity or not from leaving will become evident during my lifetime.

All we have left now is our humour, or in my case, attempts at it. And it's got bugger all to do with facts and/or figures which appear to change according to which side of the argument one is on.

[Gerard C]

Mikes if you're interested in special socks perfectly fitting the sandals may be you can ask Terence to send you some from Germany they are wunderbach… Out of VAT!

As to your politicians looking sometimes stupid I quite disagree ours are far better. Not a good news.

[bauble]

Joe thinks the whole Brexit idea is (was?) stupid, and I genuinely wonder how having the unelected Civil Servants, Juncker, Tusk, Barmier, making the major decisions that affect our lives can be 'good thing'? Ostensibly, of course, it is the EU Parliament that makes the rules, but they are so disparate a bunch that the only thing that they agree on is keeping their extremely well paid jobs.

As a country I do not believe we are particularly well liked, and while it is a lot of nonsense, the Eurovision Song Contest demonstrates that quite clearly.

If we did not make such a major contribution to the EU treasury, I doubt if any one in the EU would have given out leaving a second thought.

To me remaining is the most idiotic thing the UK could possibly do, and I still maintain that those who would choose to stay have a vested interest they wish to protect. Regardless!!!

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by bauble

As a country I do not believe we are particularly well liked, and while it is a lot of nonsense, the Eurovision Song Contest demonstrates that quite clearly.

Bob sorry if I dont fully agree with this. And if people dont like England they are not obliged to go to. Many people including a lot of "migrants" like my wife say loudly: la France aimez la ou quittez la. I hope you'll show that democracy is still alive somewhere on this world.
OK if you give me the choice I'll rush to Italy!

[coppice]

When I heard the referendum result my second thought was 'That is going to keep an army of lawyers going for years ' . Before retiring my day job was the law and I used to get involved in a lot of big projects involving regulations stemming from EU directives - and I simply could not imagine how much work just the legals would involve .



And they are peripheral to the main task , which was always going to be a bloody nightmare . And it was , and then it turned into a pantomime as the deal agreed by Europe and May was given a kicking by anybody and everybody with an agenda to pursue and /or an ego to feed . I have worked with a fair few politicians and (going against the usual kneejerk reaction ) have the majority to be hard working and essentially decent people .



But the goodwill I had has been sorely tried by the utterly shambolic antics we have seen recently and I do wonder how many MPs realise just how absurdly out of touch they seem ? From the crazy Parliamentary language and processes to the baying mob we see on TV the whole shambles is an embarrassment and shames our country.



I heard a guy on Radio 4's Any Answers come up with the best process we should have used -



- after referendum , form crossparty group whose sole job was to negotiate the deal ( composition and authority issues would have been tricky but a cross party approach was the right one)


- finalise terms and then hold second referendum - do you want this deal or to remain ?



- government agrees to hold general election 3 months after referendum and new government bound to implement the choice

[bauble]

Originally Posted by coppice

When I heard the referendum result my second thought was 'That is going to keep an army of lawyers going for years ' . Before retiring my day job was the law and I used to get involved in a lot of big projects involving regulations stemming from EU directives - and I simply could not imagine how much work just the legals would involve .



And they are peripheral to the main task , which was always going to be a bloody nightmare . And it was , and then it turned into a pantomime as the deal agreed by Europe and May was given a kicking by anybody and everybody with an agenda to pursue and /or an ego to feed . I have worked with a fair few politicians and (going against the usual kneejerk reaction ) have the majority to be hard working and essentially decent people .



But the goodwill I had has been sorely tried by the utterly shambolic antics we have seen recently and I do wonder how many MPs realise just how absurdly out of touch they seem ? From the crazy Parliamentary language and processes to the baying mob we see on TV the whole shambles is an embarrassment and shames our country.



I heard a guy on Radio 4's Any Answers come up with the best process we should have used -



- after referendum , form crossparty group whose sole job was to negotiate the deal ( composition and authority issues would have been tricky but a cross party approach was the right one)


- finalise terms and then hold second referendum - do you want this deal or to remain ?



- government agrees to hold general election 3 months after referendum and new government bound to implement the choice

Decent of you to speak up for some MP's, you are right there is a tendency to lump them altogether as 'useless'.

I do not agree with the proposal you mention, and a second referendum would/will make a mockery of the whole process. As one Brexiteer MP said, if it comes up Remain, it should be the best of three.

The government approach was wrong from the start, instead of asking the EU to offer us terms, we should have simply said we are leaving, and if you want a deal we will talk about it.

Unfortunately Politics all ways seem able to FUBAR anything

[grantp]

Originally Posted by coppice

I have worked with a fair few politicians and (going against the usual kneejerk reaction ) have the majority to be hard working and essentially decent people .

I tend to agree with you although based on those I have met there seems always to have been a wide spread between those committed to fulfilling the tasks and responsibilities expected of an MP and those who were less concerned with such matters so long as they had the title (and usually a safe seat.)

More recently, say the last couple of decades form somewhere in the Blair era, the balance of the House between the selfless and the selfish seems to have changed.

Or maybe it all started when Major was involved?

What does seem evident is that the leadership and their experiences seems to be ill suited towards the sort of job that Brexit would clearly be and that Cameron's promise of a referendum was assumed to be just a promise so no forward planning was undertaken. Even when the referendum was announced it was clear that Cameron did not expect an exit vote and I seem to recall reports that he had promised the EU that the result would never favour a UK exit.

From there on this was a game that could only be lost when played by rules that were, to all intents and purposes, being developed by both sides as the process evolved.

[Peter Mallett]

I know it appears trite, but all the politicians had to do was press the exit button and step away. Once we all knew the score businesses and those lawyers would sort it out.

Change is not rocket science but people make it difficult. There were too many risk assessments, too many scare stories which served only to make leavers more determined.

What we know now is that Armageddon didn't and won't happen. Anyone with an ounce of sense in both sides knows that it will not be easy, it will however not lead to a total melt down since only political factions can cause that

[Mike Bell]

Meanwhile, seems it isn’t all plain sailing the other side of the water, with Paris gilet jaunes protests continuing on the weekend, and customs officers causing disruption for Eurostar passengers. This may be the case at the channel ports as well, certainly was a few days ago....

[Peter Mallett]

Those are the political factions I mention above.

[Peter Mallett]

Never let it be said that the delay has no advantages:

[midgetman]

I suppose if they could delay it until October after the Six Hours...

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[midgetman]

I've got a member of staff stuck in Paris today thanks to the Eurostar work to rule. Typically French, hanging their intransigence on Brexit. But shades of things to come?

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[Peter Mallett]

Yes, I think that's the point. You have to wonder whether the French Government, or factions thereof, are winding this up.

[midgetman]

Well I *know* that certain UK factions are planning food riots after Brexit, just because they can. A small issue like the facts or no shortages won't stop them.

I got a handy guide from REIS insurance today. What to do after 29th March. Or how to state the bleeding obvious

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[PeterMorley]

Originally Posted by bauble

Joe thinks the whole Brexit idea is (was?) stupid, and I genuinely wonder how having the unelected Civil Servants, Juncker, Tusk, Barmier, making the major decisions that affect our lives can be 'good thing'? Ostensibly, of course, it is the EU Parliament that makes the rules, but they are so disparate a bunch that the only thing that they agree on is keeping their extremely well paid jobs.

As has been pointed out earlier, just repeating something over and over doesn't make it true - the EU people you mention were elected in a very similar way to the UK politicians who are responsible for this process.

As for the pay I suggest that paying Boris more for writing a newspaper column (amongst his other jobs) than these people earn is rather more unreasonable, let alone what people get paid to kick footballs etc.

The whole farce shows the difficulty that politicians face, you can't keep everyone happy and the aim is to find a balance between the different sides - achieving such miracles is what makes a good politician (one problem could be that people who are capable of such things can earn far more money doing something else).

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Never let it be said that the delay has no advantages:

Trust a political cartoonist! And true as well.....

Max, it wouldn’t be first time I’ve left UK without a green card in my steaming mitt. But previously, as long as it was in place, I was happy. And an emailed pdf works well nowadays!

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by PeterMorley

As has been pointed out earlier, just repeating something over and over doesn't make it true - the EU people you mention were elected in a very similar way to the UK politicians who are responsible for this process.

It also ignores the processes in the UK.

In the UK, the government are elected politicians who are appointed by the leader of the party that they represent, and that leader is, by and large, selected by the politicians, and is they that set policy. And often that policy is actually formulated by unelected special advisers to members of the government.

That policy is then handed down to unelected civil servants who interpret their masters' wishes, and create the laws, rules and regulations that are sometimes debated in parliament and sometimes voted on by the elected parliamentarians.

Not dissimilar to the way that it works in the EU. And please, I am talking in generalities.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

It also ignores the processes in the UK.

In the UK, the government are elected politicians who are appointed by the leader of the party that they represent, and that leader is, by and large, selected by the politicians, and is they that set policy. And often that policy is actually formulated by unelected special advisers to members of the government.

That policy is then handed down to unelected civil servants who interpret their masters' wishes, and create the laws, rules and regulations that are sometimes debated in parliament and sometimes voted on by the elected parliamentarians.

Not dissimilar to the way that it works in the EU. And please, I am talking in generalities.

It's called the Separation of Powers:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_powers

The Wiki (usual caveats) file referenced is rather large but quite a good guide. It also demonstrates that there are no checks and balances on the Commission which is counter to any argument of similarity to the UK.

Whilst the UK has blurred lines, it is the basis of the tripartite theory of the Separation of Powers. The most extreme example is the USA of course. The current situation demonstrates that Parliament, for all of its faults is operating to limit the Government, acting as a "governor" if you will.

With the EU it works on finance. The more they bribe the states the more they can get away with. In this respect and quite scarily, Italy appears to be about to give Juncker a seriously bloody nose.

[S griffin]

That’s something I have never heard of before. Thanks to Wiki for that, that’s what we are living in

Certainly the UK system works well, at least it is not like America. We get to choose our party based on our MP and the leader.

The EU is not perfect, but I don’t know enough about what goes on inside. Certainly it would be good if we could all work together to find a solution