Official Team of the Grand Prix: Russian Grand Prix 2018

**Born Racer** · 30 Sep 2018, 15:01 (Ref:3853523)

Who do you rate as the team of the Russian Grand Prix?

**bjohnsonsmith** · 30 Sep 2018, 17:18 (Ref:3853555)

RBR. Ricciardo and Verstappen started 18th and 19th, with Verstappen finishing 5th and Ricciardo 6th.

EffectiveSprinkles · 30 Sep 2018, 18:31 (Ref:3853589)

I would like to give Ferrari a shout for doing tactics right this time, managing to get Vettel in front of Hamilton. The Mercedes was the better car in every respect so that was their only shot. It didn't go their way in the end.

GT6 · 30 Sep 2018, 19:48 (Ref:3853622)

RBR gets my vote and after the disgraceful way Mercs acted i will never vote for them again

JeremySmith · 30 Sep 2018, 23:57 (Ref:3853682)

Red Bull Racing...

Neil22 · 1 Oct 2018, 04:10 (Ref:3853708)

Mercedes, but they picked up a load of bad karma too.

TrapezeArtist · 1 Oct 2018, 08:50 (Ref:3853757)

Very tricky. On performance it should clearly be Mercedes, but I hate team orders. In the end I abstained.

ascarracinguk · 1 Oct 2018, 09:55 (Ref:3853771)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrapezeArtist

Very tricky. On performance it should clearly be Mercedes, but I hate team orders. In the end I abstained.

and that's the reason I gave it to Mercedes. where as Ferrari have tried to deceive fans with team orders in the past, Toto was the perfect manager and made the right call for the team. and then explained his decision afterwards.

1,2 in qualifying, the race and played a perfect team game

TrapezeArtist · 1 Oct 2018, 12:18 (Ref:3853804)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

and that's the reason I gave it to Mercedes. where as Ferrari have tried to deceive fans with team orders in the past, Toto was the perfect manager and made the right call for the team. and then explained his decision afterwards.

Fair point. TW was up-front about it, whereas Ferrari in the past were very evasive.

EffectiveSprinkles · 1 Oct 2018, 16:56 (Ref:3853868)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrapezeArtist

Fair point. TW was up-front about it, whereas Ferrari in the past were very evasive.

Evasive?

Only when team orders were forbidden so they had to be. This is just as blatant as any team order ever given, how anyone can say they were 'upfront' about it is ridiculous. How many times have we not heard the same Wolff claim they want to let Bottas race however he wants to?

**bjohnsonsmith** · 1 Oct 2018, 13:24 (Ref:3853818)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil22

Mercedes, but they picked up a load of bad karma too.

Will that bad karma come round and bite them?

**Aysedasi** · 1 Oct 2018, 14:18 (Ref:3853832)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Will that bad karma come round and bite them?

I can't see any reason why. As has been said forever and a day (it seems), team orders have always played a part in F1, whether overtly or otherwise. It was clearly the right thing to do and if any of us had been team managers, we'd have done it to.

I don't see what difference it made to a dull event.

I give my vote though to RBR as irrespective of Mercedes, they deserve it.

**bjohnsonsmith** · 1 Oct 2018, 14:43 (Ref:3853842)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I can't see any reason why. As has been said forever and a day (it seems), team orders have always played a part in F1, whether overtly or otherwise. It was clearly the right thing to do and if any of us had been team managers, we'd have done it to.

I don't see what difference it made to a dull event.

I give my vote though to RBR as irrespective of Mercedes, they deserve it.

My question about karma was purely philosophical.

It's not about what difference it made to a dull race. If this had happened in an exciting race, the reaction would be the same, maybe worse.

JeremySmith · 1 Oct 2018, 14:57 (Ref:3853846)

[QUOTE=Neil22;3853708]Mercedes, but they picked up a load of bad karma too.[/QUOTE

We have always had team orders in F1,many of us would have made the same call..

**GTRMagic** · 1 Oct 2018, 13:42 (Ref:3853822)

Sauber for turning what looked to be a pigs ear earlier this year and somehow creating a silk purse...

**Aysedasi** · 1 Oct 2018, 16:59 (Ref:3853869)

Blatant or upfront, same thing to me. Bottas knows his opportunity to race Hamilton will now come only once Hamilton has finished winning the WDC. He had his chance to establish the right to fight him many races ago - and failed.

EffectiveSprinkles · 1 Oct 2018, 17:05 (Ref:3853872)

Missing the point. There are people trying to deflect this issue by twisting this into some criticism of Ferrari, who don't even have anything to do with this. In fact, when it comes to team orders Ferrari have actually been honorable to their own detriment this season.

**Aysedasi** · 1 Oct 2018, 17:56 (Ref:3853880)

I don't believe I've missed any point, but nor am I deflecting anything at Ferrari, I haven't mentioned them at all, as far as I recall. I'll eat crow over Vettel's 'double move' but not this one.....

EffectiveSprinkles · 1 Oct 2018, 19:01 (Ref:3853895)

You're not of the 'people' I mentioned

**Aysedasi** · 1 Oct 2018, 19:07 (Ref:3853896)

Cheers.

**Aysedasi** · 2 Oct 2018, 08:05 (Ref:3853984)

Again, why were fans 'cheated'. Perhaps those who watch F1 on a superficial level, maybe, but not 'fans'. They would have known what was likely to happen and shouldn't have been surprised about it. I'm not debating that it was good for the race or for F1 in general, it clearly wasn't. But its allowed and was (by me at least) 100% expected.

GT6 · 2 Oct 2018, 08:16 (Ref:3853988)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Again, why were fans 'cheated'. Perhaps those who watch F1 on a superficial level, maybe, but not 'fans'. They would have known what was likely to happen and shouldn't have been surprised about it. I'm not debating that it was good for the race or for F1 in general, it clearly wasn't. But its allowed and was (by me at least) 100% expected.

Well Andrew, true fans want to see motor racing, which is were cars and driver compete to see who is best. By changing that Mercedes and TW not only ruin the race for true fans and the public in general but brought shame onto both F1 and Mercedes, Yes you could see TW felt bad about it but by doing it with in reality little to be gained his once proud reputation amongst the people who follow the sport has been diminished. This is of course my opinion but i think it is shared by quite a few others.

Akrapovic · 2 Oct 2018, 08:24 (Ref:3853992)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT6

Well Andrew, true fans want to see motor racing, which is were cars and driver compete to see who is best. By changing that Mercedes and TW not only ruin the race for true fans and the public in general but brought shame onto both F1 and Mercedes, Yes you could see TW felt bad about it but by doing it with in reality little to be gained his once proud reputation amongst the people who follow the sport has been diminished. This is of course my opinion but i think it is shared by quite a few others.

I do agree with this, and although I don't like team orders I agree it's legal etc. But I will add one thing to it - the fuss of this will blow over by the end of the next race and everyone will forget and not care. There have been so so so many team order events over the decades and the ones we remember were the most dramatic - Austria 2002 for example.

I agree it sucks. I agree nobody really likes it and it does feel a little like "cheating" the fans, but it's short-term fuss that blows over. TW and Mercedes know that. By the time they have "2018 Formula One World Champion" stickers on the back of every new Mercedes on every showroom in the world, the fuss over swapping drivers will be long gone.

crmalcolm · 2 Oct 2018, 08:53 (Ref:3853994)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT6

Well Andrew, true fans want to see motor racing, which is were cars and driver compete to see who is best. By changing that Mercedes and TW not only ruin the race for true fans and the public in general but brought shame onto both F1 and Mercedes,

I don't understand the comments that state what happened was not racing.

It has to be remembered that each event is not a one-off, but part of a season long campaign which allocates prize money based on a team's results.

The overall aim of F1 is for teams to compete in a championship to see who is best. That is exactly what we saw part of at the weekend, and rather than try and segregate 'true fans' from 'false fans', I would suggest that those who want to be a fan of F1 should watch in that understanding.

The championship is contested by teams who enter two cars at each event, with multiple events contributing to the overall result. Given that penalties are carried over between events, and PU allocation is also calculated on a multiple event basis, it would be wrong to try and view each event in isolation. Teams attempt to extract the best season-long result for themselves, including swapping driver positions, putting other drivers in for FP sessions and managing their pit-stop strategies.

The fact that each event awards trophies separately, and that the drivers are also contesting for a WDC should not distract from what F1 is. They should just be seen as part of the show, not the reason for racing.

Is what happened with Mercedes' choice to manage their respective 1-2 positions any worse than RBR having to start from so far back? We saw (albeit for a short time) the top two drivers challenge each other for position on the track - RBR's penalties contributed more to not seeing the drivers and cars compete to see who is best in this GP than anything Mercedes did.

**Aysedasi** · 2 Oct 2018, 08:17 (Ref:3853990)

But Mercedes have changed nothing Simon. You say it as if it's the first time it's ever happened..... And as for shame, I just don't see how 'shame' features at all.

View Poll Results: Who do you rate as the team of the Russian Grand Prix?
Mercedes	7	33.33%
Ferrari	0	0%
Red Bull	4	19.05%
Force India	2	9.52%
Haas	0	0%
Renault	1	4.76%
McLaren	0	0%
Toro Rosso	0	0%
Sauber	7	33.33%
Williams	0	0%
Voters: 21. You may not vote on this poll

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