Tyres - The Great Debate!

[skentellytubby]

Thanks Mike, very useful info.

Can I feel a 'tyres' thread coming? I don't think I've seen one previously?

[Nick JM]

OK Who's into rubber...?

[zefarelly]

different profiles fit different cars I thought, 13" rims in tin tops run M's, L's don't fit, L's seem to be common on 15" rims ??? MG, Trevors Alfas etc,

the big V8's are a law unto themselves it seems.

[terence]

Originally Posted by skentellytubby

Hmm. I need to know whether I can run Ms!

Terry, where are you? Can I run M sections!?

On the end of the phone Simon
Busy trying to finish my car off and other peoples at the moment.
Sorry but I think that old cars should run period rubber,the HSCC dont seem to have any issue's as indeed any of the Masters boys dont either. As for the 'durability' of "Histo's",many people are quite surprised by just how long they do last and the fact that older tyres will 'come back' after a few lap's running.All in all I think they are an excellent tyre with plenty of 'fun factor' inbuilt,just how it should be-even in the wet!

Dont bother with Ms on the B,they will foul the rearmost shocker bolt and you'll gain next to nothing.

[Note for Zef,Bs run 14s]

[grantp]

Originally Posted by Nick JM

OK Who's into rubber...?

I think you may need to tread carefully with that one Nick.

[Nick JM]

Originally Posted by grantp

I think you may need to tread carefully with that one Nick.

Mmmm. Yes. Best to stay ...on track

[skentellytubby]

Originally Posted by grantp

I think you may need to tread carefully with that one Nick.

[Moosehead]

RE durability on V8's -

Dunlops: a set lasted 7X 40min races & practice sessions(30mins a session) including rotating them around the car. However I did destroy one extra due to flat spotting at Anglesey so 5 in total.

Yoko A032- 8X 40min races & 30min practice sessions + 2x 1hr race at the 'Ring with 30min practice.

Now running on Yoko A048's as they're £50 a tyre cheaper than A032's but they are a smaller size. So far 8x 40min races, 1x 1hr race at Spa with 30min practice and 1x 2hr race at the 'Ring with 30min practice + 15mins of Snetterton before the engine let go. Still showing tread, probably good for a race and maybe 2 practice sessions.

[james s]

This year we did the whole season on one set of tyres in the B8,and that includes the Snetterton 3 hours! To be fair they were pretty shagged by the end and would not have been any good in heavy rain or standing water.

[Mike Bell]

My beef on tyres used in historics is race series that allow profiles lower than appropriate. To me just looks odd to see a 60s or 70s road based car on 60% or lower profile rubber, especially with a virtually slick tread pattern. The 70% profile Avon ZZ with fairly period looking tread pattern looks better and with radial construction plus soft tread compound offers a good half way house between L /M s and Yokos. And of course road legal as well, not like the Dunlops. Having spent first initial racing experiences on them, moved to Ls for two reasons- eligibility and choice. Of course hated them at first, but interestingly this year went back to Avons for Tour Britannia as tyres had to be road legal. OK, much nicer road tyre and better on the stages especially if wet or muddy, but on dry race track would have been happier on Dunlops. Slower maybe, but definitely happier! Along with extra grip putting strain on suspension of older cars, have you checked weight of a ZZ with comparable Dunlop L? Must put one on scale but definitely L much lighter.

So for me only thing wrong with Dunlops is price. Why so much?

With slick tyres, again it seems that sometimes profiles, construction and wheel diameters are (imho) allowed to be inappropriate. Dunlop and Avon still make the correct stuff, but again at a price....

We all 'pays our money and makes our choice'. I'll keep to as near period correct as possible, thanks!

[Peter Mallett]

In our case the D84s, although treaded and 60%, appear to reflect the slick tyre sizes used in period. I'd prefer to run slicks, as in period but the regs don't cater for them.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

In our case the D84s, although treaded and 60%, appear to reflect the slick tyre sizes used in period. I'd prefer to run slicks, as in period but the regs don't cater for them.

Yes, agree would be good to see Gp1 on slicks as in period. Masters regs appear to be same as CTCRC, so at least D84s common for both.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Masters regs appear to be same as CTCRC, so at least D84s common for both.

I can't think why that should be.

[midgetman]

I've never run on Dunlops, but our FISC tyres were a genuine List 1a which I understand are comparable in grip to them. I enjoyed the car squirrelling around, sliding, drifting, it took a great deal of finesse and skill. The couple of times I ran on 032s/048s w.h.y. I was quite underwhelmed. All the finesse had gone it was just a matter of holding on, and TBQH the tyres were quicker than the car. No fun!

I understand I may feel a bit different if I had somewhat more power than my little 1380 gave out....

[zefarelly]

on the subject of cost, I was involved in a sizable project to supply the MoD a while back and tried using the clout of 100k order value to see if I could buy a reasonable quantity on Dunlop M's for me and some friends, a waste of time, its a closed shop, and for good reason IMO, its clearly profitable . . . . I can buy crossply tyres of the same construction and quality in the US in vintage truck sizes (4 times the material) for the same or less!

[Derwent Motorsp]

I do know where the OP is coming from as I do some same events in a similar B. I mainly do GTS races on costly Dunlops that have half their tread buffed off an extra cost. I also do the odd race and hill climb on Yokos. The Yokos are better grip but perhaps only 2 seconds difference at say Knockhill.
The big issue with the Dunlops is the lack of any competition in their supply and thus the high cost compared to Yokos.

[Wriggley Monkey]

I agree.

The problem is not with the dunlop tyres themselves but that there is no effective competition in the supply and therefore there is a good chance that we are not paying market prices.

I have heard the view that the price that Dunlop charge reflects the small quantities that they make them in but I am not sure this stacks up with the prices of say ZZs.

Is there a sensible way to introduce an alternative period tyre ?

[turbster]

Originally Posted by skentellytubby

Just got back from Donington racing with the CSCC. A handful of us that normally race in the Appendix K series (on Dunlop Histos) were in with a full Swinging 60's grid (with sticky Yokohamas or similar).

Can someone tell me the point of racing old cars on tyres like that?

I was sliding and drifting all over the place having a riot, meanwhile everything around me was just stuck firmly to the track (god knows how much mechanical wear and tear those tyres cause)

I just don't see the point, personally? If you are racing old cars surely you do so in order to get the whole package - including the slidy handling??

Possibly being one of the cars you're refering to, I can assure you there's a fair amount of sliding and drifting going on on the Yokos
I've looked at the prices of the Dunlops, and they're just too expensive in my opinion. If there's a choice of series to run your prefered tire, what's the problem if others don't want be quite as historically correct as but still want to race old cars??

[Teddington Ted]

As it happens over the years I have raced the Plus 4 on all three makes of tyre. This is how I would sum them up:

Yokos = fastest lap time but no sliding and not much grinning
Avons = look the part but still not much sliding or grinning
Dunlops = look fantastic; I'm all sliding all over the place and grinning like an idiot.

Everyone should race on Dunlops at least once. I'm sure that my driving has improved over the last few years because they make me think more -especially about balancing the car in the corners.


Mark

[morninggents]

A few years ago (late90s/early00s) Goodyear made a historic race tyre though not the variety of sizes made by Dunlop. Does anyone know if they are still available?

Perhaps an alternative supplier (Goodyear?) would bring some competition and drive down costs for competitors. I know this is a restricted market but it's growing and lower prices through there being two suppliers may entice other historic race series to mandate early racing spec. tyres.

[skentellytubby]

Originally Posted by turbster

Possibly being one of the cars you're refering to, I can assure you there's a fair amount of sliding and drifting going on on the Yokos
I've looked at the prices of the Dunlops, and they're just too expensive in my opinion. If there's a choice of series to run your preferred tyre, what's the problem if others don't want be quite as historically correct as but still want to race old cars??

I'm not suggesting there is a problem, it's just the experience has told me it's not for me.

Cost has nothing to do with it, believe me I struggle to afford to race more than most. My Dunlops will "have" to last until the middle of next season. If I wear them out I stop racing, thems the breaks.

On Sunday I was rooted firmly on the tail of a car that everyone knows to have 'tail out' handling and it was not moving around at all. I just see that as a bit of a shame, as going fast is only part of the equation. He was murdering me through Craner!

I'd rather race less but get more smiles and daft historic tyres give that to me (and I've tried my car on verious things before setting it up for Dunlop histos)

It's no biggy

[skentellytubby]

Originally Posted by turbster

Possibly being one of the cars you're refering to, I can assure you there's a fair amount of sliding and drifting going on on the Yokos
I've looked at the prices of the Dunlops, and they're just too expensive in my opinion. If there's a choice of series to run your prefered tire, what's the problem if others don't want be quite as historically correct as but still want to race old cars??

Very nice car by the way Paul. Goes a bit doesn't it!!! Did you have problems near mid-way?

[Thurner_fan]

Just out of historical interest, does anyone know exactly when Ms were introduced? Was it pre-66?

[smokystove]

Not a racer but in my searches for suitable tyres for classic road cars I found it interesting to note that the Jaguar Enthusiasts Club use Vredestein Sprint Classics as their control tyre in the XK series.
I've wondered why they chose them.
I do know that these have more period correct profiles and have heard complaints of lack of grip from road users so could it be that they have some characteristics similar to the historic racing tyres?
They are relatively cheap at about under 100 Euro per corner.

[graham bahr]

I found it interesting to note that the Jaguar Enthusiasts Club use Vredestein Sprint Classics as their control tyre in the XK series

that might just be part of a sponsorship deal as opposed to any tyre life/grip properties