Should they dump Monaco?

[Jay]

After Ron Dennis described Monaco's facilities as "Third world", I thought I would start this topic to see what others opinions were.

OK, some of you will be saying of course they shouldn't, it is the jewel of F1, the race that every driver wants to win.

Yes, that is true, but here are a few other things that are true:

-Monaco has the worst safety facilities of all the F1 circuits. The FIA does not even bother to do the same safety checks they do with the other circuits because they know it fail by a long shot.

-The tightness of the circuit makes it impossible to land a helicopter on the track.

-Very few of the drivers enjoy driving on the tight and twisty track.

-None of the teams like the paddock is the most cramped, dirty and lacking of proper facilities in all of F1.

-The only reason it is still on the Formula One calender is tradition. If there wasn't already a race there, the FIA would definitely laugh at anyone who suggested there should be one there.

-There is no place to pass, and the race is always one of the most boring in F1 with very little passing. The only interesting part is the crashes.

My opinion is that they should look into moving the race to a safer place. However, Monaco being the wealthiest principality in the world, and all of the tradition around the race, the FIA will not even think about it until someone dies.

[Redneck]

Maybe it is just me...

...but the safety card has been beaten to death. I believe if a driver feels that it is unsafe to race then don't drive. I wish the would bring back the old Targa Florio and the old Nurburgring. Racing is dangerous and not for the faint at heart. The last bastion of true roadracing is only present at the Isle of Man. The annual race for motorcycles on a 37 mile course on the public roads is dangerous. Since it's inception in 1917 (I think that is right) this race has averaged two deaths per year. Every once in a while someone tries to stop it, but the racers persist in its future. Are the only real roadracers on two-wheels anymore?

[Liz]

I agree, and would add to that, there is more to the life of a racer than being shuffled into a stadium to watch cars go round and round the safest oval track there is, forever and ever, with no interaction possible at all.

I want to get down there and see the cars close up and hear the noise and smell the dust and smoke! I want to walk along the sidewalks at Monaco and gawk at the cars on the Friday, and look for the pilotes in their everyday clothes, and wonder who all the famous people are, and troll for Ferraris in the car parks, and pretend for a week that I am a Beautiful Person. I want to sit at Casino Square and wonder if that Jordan is going to end up in my lap...or hang over the balcony of an apartment at the start-finish line and watch the lights go out and yell AND ITS GO GO GO GO! for myself.

I don't want to spend the rest of my life hiding from all the things that make racing a sport you have to see in person and not just another pre-digested experience Sanitized For My Protection.

I want Monaco to stay on the circuit and I WANT TO GO!

[TimD]

If I had my way, it wouldn't be "should they dump Monaco", but "When will they reinstate Pau?"

Poor Ron. Prehistoric, huh? Better dust off the 38-ton short wheelbase hospitality truck, rather than the normal 44-tonner, if they're that pushed for space.

For me, I want to see Monaco GP's for as long as there are internal combustion engines, and there are people willing to race them.

As to safety, if I remember rightly, Monaco has only had one fatality in its history. Lorenzo Bandini in 1967. And it can be argued that accident would have been survivable if not for a TV helicopter getting in the way of the rescue effort.

And I'm not quite sure, but I'm fairly confident that apart from that, no driver has ever had a career-ending injury at the Principality. That's a lot more than can be said for Silverstone, Monza, Montreal which have all been tweaked and sanitized in the cause of safety.

[Crash Test]

There is a similar situation around here with a new super safe, yet rather sterle track being recently opened, and the old track, which was called unsafe by nearly everyone. The thing is once they have their new safe track, they find it too boring, and complain.

As far as F1 and Monaco, well, it has out grown the place, but you would have to think there are pressures from the sponsors. It is the biggest meeting on the calendar, and would have soem extra people watching, which is what the sponsors want.

[TimD]

No driver has had a career ending injury...

Except of course for Karl Wendlinger.

Brain in gear before committing to print, Tim...

[This message has been edited by TimD (edited 02 June 2000).]

[AL Racing]

Where have you heard (Jay) that drivers don't enjoy driving on the track? I have always read the opposite, most drivers find it exciting, except Ricardo Rosset , and challenging, with a great sence of speed.

It can as you say be considered a dull race, but it's surely not as dull as Spain usually is. I find it as one of best GP venues on the calendar, and the race always is exciting. But it's exciting in another sense than usual, because as you said there's not much overtaking going on but I love seeing them driving the cars to the limit with only inches to spare over 78 laps.

And it's one of my fauvorite track and I enjoy driving it on Grand Prix 2.

[Liz]

Wendlinger is still racing sports cars. I saw him in last months Le Mans and Sports Cars Magazine.

Ron Dennis is third world. It's no wonder his pilotes are always whingeing. They learned it at their daddy's knees..... Pull your cars off the grid, Uncle Ron.

[EERO]

"Of course they shouldn't, it is the jewel of F1, the race that every driver wants to win."

I think you said it in your opening comment, Jay. Monaco, for all its deficiencies, attracts an enourmous amount of interest in the sport and the celebreties who throng there lend the event and and all F1 the cachet of glamour and exclusivity that make it so appealing to the general public.
Yes many of the people who attend are not real fans, but their prescence attracts a lot of attention that the sport (and its sponsors)cannot afford to do without.

I also agree with the issue of danger that both Liz and TimD have endorsed-the sport shouldn't be completely sanitized-and the tradition of cars racing on the same virtually the same course that has been in use since before the war is unparalelled in the sport-it would be like giving up on Indy.

And for those of you who would say, "Hey, what about Monza and Silverstone?"- it ain't the same, chicanes have eviscerated those tracks.

[Sparky]

Sorry to disagree, Jay.

Monaco is the one race I will not miss each year. It is the essence of F1.

I have a very weighty book, printed in three languages, French, English and German, by Rainer Schlegelmilch and Hartmut Lehbrink entitled 'Grand Prix de Monaco'.
It describes in words and amazing 'off-the-record' photos every GP since 1929.
I've sat and re-read the introduction and first chapter again since this thread started.

Did you know that the FIA was originally a chapter of the ACM? (Autombile Club de Monaco) I guess they won't be 'dumping' Monte Carlo from the calander just yet!

Dump it and we might miss more of these..

Lotus' first win there in 1960, with Moss.

Mansell climbing all over the gearbox of Sennas McLaren in '92.

Senna winning there six times! (if only we could see this again )

And what about '82? Possibly the most amazing F1 race ever!
On lap 73, in the rain with only two laps to go, the order seemed set. Prost was leading, but unfortunately spun after the chicane at Tabac. Patrese gained the lead, only to spin at the Loews Hairpin. He restarted, but Pironi had sneaked through to take No. 1 spot. He stopped in the tunnel less than 400 yards later, with an electrical fault. De Cesaris took the lead, only to run out of fuel. Derek Daly, in his Williams FW08 took the lead, only to collide with the wall and retire. This left... Patrese! The guy who spun, stalled, ran down the hill to Portier, restarted himself with a rolling start and went on to win!!

I, for one, can't wait 'til Sunday.

I may be a 1000 miles away, but I feel close!




[This message has been edited by Sparky (edited 02 June 2000).]

[EERO]

A thought on Karl Wendlinger, I think Tim is right to include him in the list of people whose careers were ended at Monaco. Since his crash in 1994, he has never been the same.His performances in Sports Cars have been exemplary, but lack that little bit more when he was Sauber's great hope, qualifying at the front of the grid and easily outqualifying Frentzen.

[Heeltoe6]

I am not much of an F1 fan, just a csual observer, usually catch the races replayed Monday on Speedvision if I have the time, but Monaco is the one race I will wake up early Sunday morning to watch live. It's one of the last courses they haven't fouled up in the name of "safety" (not that I am against safety, but the so called improvements the fia has made to most tracks would have hardly prevented freak accidents that prompted them, and only serve to mkae the racing generic and boring)

[Liz]

I know you'll all be relieved to hear that Max has come out squarely against eliminating pitstops despite the unfortunate events in the Ferrari pits leading to injury and danger.

Eliminate the pit stops and there would be no reason for a "race" to last more than one lap.

[Diabando]

Cant possibly get rid of Monaco!!

Come on guys...what is one of the many reasons we love F1?? Because of its history... Monaco would have to be one of the few circuits just dripping with tradition..

How many times have we seen actually quite interesting races at Monaco? lots and lots.. ok - not so much overtaking, but mistakes a plenty! It is one unforgiving circuit, and thats why the DNF rate is so high. Lets just see who really has a fire in thier belly, with the concentration and skill to match? I love it!!

As far as the pits go...I consider Ron Dennis to be somewhat of a spoilt child.. they all have the technology, the supposed teamwork, and the equipment to make it work...get over it and get on with it.

Cheers!

[Nuvolari]

That Ron Dennis would sniff about "Third World conditions" is an insult. Mr. Dennis, while sipping wine and dining on roast squab inside the team's lavishly appointed rolling mansion, would do well to reflect on those parts of the globe where the daily fare is grass and grubs.

Dump Monaco?

Let the dicing begin!

[Ed-f1]

Impossible to overtake? What's new? I've always found Monaco to be one of the most exciting races. You do get some pretty good on-track battles, it's just normally they end up in a crash. The high rate of attrition means you tend to get more changes in the top 6 in the course of a race than normal.

[Neil C]

In the '60s, my only exposure to F1 was ABC's coverage of Monaco and Watkins Glen. To many, Monaco is F1.

You cant dismiss it as merely tradition. Monaco was a big reason I became an F1 fan and I'm sure many others would say the same.

If Monaco is third world, book me on the next tramp steamer heading east.

[R]

I will answer this question "Should they dump Monaco?" with one word: NO!

It's the most classical of races, and should NEVER be removed from the calendar! I agree with EERO, it would be like taking away the Indy 500. And, like Nuvolari said, Ron Dennis' out-of-place "third world"-comments is an insult to those who are in the REAL third world. He should apologize for making such comments.

[Jay]

Neil, I have to admit that the first F1 race that I ever sat down and watched in its entirety was at Monaco. I thought boy this is cool, these cars move at crazy speeds through streets that people will usually use to get to work on. WOW!

Monaco usually does produce an exciting race of "I hope everybody in front of my driver hits the wall" excitement.

AL Racing. I race on Monaco in GP2 as well. The only parts of the track I like is the part after the first corner, the uphill blast, followed by the 3rd gear fast corner (2ft from the barrier) leading to casino. The tunnel is kind of neat too.

I am not absolutely for or against moving the race, I just wanted to hear some discussion. I don't think that they should continue to race forever and ever on a circuit simply because of tradition. Safety should be a consideration too. While i would like to see the F1 cars continue around Monaco, I fear that a bad accident in a bad part of the track where a driver doesn't recieve medical attention as soon as he could have will spell an end to the tradition. Just like Lauda's crash killed the old nurburgring.

[Liz]

You don't consider Bandini's death to be as serious as Lauda's near-death then? Odd ...

More people (both pilotes and spectators) have been killed during F1 races at Imola than have been killed at Monaco. Why don't you think we should close that track down, then?

[Jay]

Liz, I apologize, my recolection of history is not as good as yours. However, most would say that it was Lauda's accident that got the race moved.

I was looking at the track during qualifying, and with the exception of the tunnel exit it appears fairly safe. It is not that there is a lot of run off area, but the speeds are mostly fairly slow, and there are more tire barriers than all of the Cart tracks combined.

It looks pretty good. There is not much they can do about the tunnel exit, so I guess it will have to stay unless there is a bad accident there.

[AL Racing]

Jay, I love the uphill blast and through Massenet and Casino too. Tabac and the corners around the swimming-pool is awsome, great fun play around with the steering wheel a 'la opposite lock Alesi.

[Tristan]

More F1GP2 addicts come to the surface. Monaco is great fun to blast around. The swimming pool is awesome but I do love outbreaking people on the exit of the tunnel.

[Gerard]

There is one simple thing they can do about the tunnel exit.
Bring it back the way it was in the early days.
Without the chicane.
Most of the complaints about Monaco are about the pits.
They're too small thus too dangerous.
There are plans to do something about it, but these plans cannot be developed before they change the harbor.
They are working on the harbor at the moment but it will still take another 2 years untill it's finished.
Then they start working on the pits.
Monaco is keen to keep it's Grand Prix since the average profit is $10 million per year.

[Liz]

Good thing they took out the spikes on that chicane or a lot more people would have met their race's end than did.

Trivia Question: What is the fewest number of cars that ever finished in Monaco?