What can be done to improve the WEC ?

[Articus]

Get the ACO on the phone. Poach those FIA GT1 teams!!!

[Rodger Davies]

Originally Posted by Articus

Get the ACO on the phone. Poach those FIA GT1 teams!!!

But be prepared to explain to them why to replace their £300,000 GT3 cars with more expensive GTE ones instead of going to race in a cheaper series with regulations that allow their cars.

[Articus]

Originally Posted by Rodger Davies

But be prepared to explain to them why to replace their £300,000 GT3 cars with more expensive GTE ones instead of going to race in a cheaper series with regulations that allow their cars.

The 458 GTE cost about the same as that. The new Porsche will be priced similar to the 458 to be competitive in customer sales. In addition Mclaren will be high volume and therefore cheaper as well.

The only cars that are truly expensive are the BMW and the Corvette because those are basically homologation specials not customer cars.

[Speed-King]

The 458 GTE cost about the same as that.

Nope. IIRC all GTEs are really close or actuall above 500.000 Euros, so that'd be closer to 400.000 pound, whereas many GT3s can still be had for around 250.000 pound.

A new Porsche RSR can be yours for a cool 498.000 Euro + VAT.

GT3 R comes in at a paltry 304.500 Euros - that's 193.500 Euro cheaper.

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by MagVanisher

I have an idea... Why not make WEC as a LMP1 and GTE-Pro series, sharing the grid with ALMS/ELMS/AsLMS full of LMP2s and GTE-ProAm cars.
Oh, and have 3 rounds at the Americas, 5 in Europe, and 2 in Asia.

I like that idea .

[fieldodreams79]

In all honesty, I would be absolutely, without doubt, be all chips in on the WEC no matter where they went and what TV/internet stream deal they had if they chose to include a certain end of the year race that I dare not bring up again for the fear of the inquisition.

With Sebring and Le Mans complete for 2012, so is the WEC. I really don't care.


But since the question was asked, to improve it, besides the above, just find some way convince more people to spend money to enter more elite teams, and race in Antarctica for all I care; just give me a way to view it in HD live or replay.

[The Badger]

I would very much like to hear Graham Goodwins remarks on this topic .

[alexkiller8]

Originally Posted by Articus

The 458 GTE cost about the same as that. .

i guess that even a second hand 458 GTE hasn't that price. The 2011 spec has a price of over 500.000€, the 2012 spec i guess has a higher price.

[Articus]

The 2011 spec Ferrari was €480,000 sans tax as are the other prices for the GT3 above.The 2012 spec could be less for many reasons including the volume of production and customer loyalty by many many teams like ESM, AF Corse, Krohn, Luxury.

[alexkiller8]

Originally Posted by Articus

The 2011 spec Ferrari was €480,000 sans tax as are the other prices for the GT3 above.The 2012 spec could be less for many reasons including the volume of production and customer loyalty by many many teams like ESM, AF Corse, Krohn, Luxury.

480.000€ sans tax, just think that for an italian team (i mean an italian team signed as an italian company in the italian chamber of commerce like AF Corse) will be required more than 580.000€ to buy one car. Actually the only GT3 car that has a price over 400.000 is the AMG sls, the others have around 250-350.000€ as price. The 2012 upgraded specs have a less drag body parts (you can notice the differences on the front hood) a revised electronics and an engine that consumes much less than the 2011 version. Is unprobable that with these updates the car price is lower.

[GT3.14]

Kessel listed a well used GTE-Am ready 458 in November for a cool 450.000€. Rebuilt engine and gearbox, no mention of spares either. Add many hundreds of thousands for spares and rebuilds, another couple of hundred thousand for logistics and preparation. Then you are ready to find out how long it takes you to be immortalised as the person who maimed or killed (insert professional driver(s)'s name here). Or you could buy a cost-capped P2 car for 100k less, find some single-seater drivers who are ready to spend their budget on something more productive than posh Mario-Kart and be competitive in a Pro-Am format that is far more rewarding. Easy choice for me!

[alexkiller8]

is the reason why a lot of team run cheaper GT3 cars (cheaper not only in the price but for the maintenance) and only few unbacked teams run GTE cars.

[Articus]

Originally Posted by alexkiller8

is the reason why a lot of team run cheaper GT3 cars (cheaper not only in the price but for the maintenance) and only few unbacked teams run GTE cars.

as of late probably. But i think the f430 and older porsche in those years had comparatively cheaper prices.

[Speed-King]

Yeah, but back then the basic GT3 car was the Porsche GT3 Cup...

[Jonerz]

Will help all of ACO racing in addition to the WEC:

WEC should be an LMP1 championship only. The ACO opened the ILMC up to GT's because of the factory involvement in GTE. If you want to make LMP1 a manufacturer class, don't reward manufacturers for going to a different class! If manufacturers want to be World Champions they must compete in LMP1.

Piggyback off of existing strong races. If the WEC can put together an eight to twelve car LMP1 field that would be more beneficial to ACO style sports car racing than robbing the ELMS and other ACO championships of entrants by effectively creating a competing championship. It might be too late with the current death knells we're hearing about the ELMS.

Round 1 Sebring ALMS
Round 2 Spa ELMS
Round 3 Le Mans
Round 4 Silverstone ELMS
Round 5 Japan/China AsLMS
Round 6 Petit Le Mans ALMS

Go where the crowds are and don't hurt existing events and partners by robbing them of content like factory cars or marquis races.

Finally develop some way to reward manufacturers for involvement in your partner series (ALMS, ELMS, AsLMS). The benefit to the WEC is to have perhaps a dozen races outside of the Championship events that draw eyeballs to ACO style racing and the premier brands outside of the short, yet strung out WEC series season. It also rewards your partners (who have helped save/build) the sport of sports car racing which delivers great content to Le Mans and now the WEC year-in, year-out.

I don't know if a "to enter the WEC you must have at least one car entered in one of ALMS, AsLMS, or ELMS" would work, but a system that would actually BENEFIT ACO style racing, not just transfer content from one area to another (i.e. the WEC currently) would be cool.

Not for the WEC: Take displacement limitations off of the GTE class to help lessen the need for waivers. Further changes to GTE should include the allowance and balancing of hybrid drive trains and more liberal allowance of forced induction where it exists on the road car homologation.

Chris

[kurski]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

WEC should be an LMP1 championship only. The ACO opened the ILMC up to GT's because of the factory involvement in GTE. If you want to make LMP1 a manufacturer class, don't reward manufacturers for going to a different class! If manufacturers want to be World Champions they must compete in LMP1.

Are talking true WEC should be LMP cars World Championship series. Once WSC only C Group cars series. GT and Prototype cars work well together, neither the only prototype, however, would bear a good series for the car rates.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

Not for the WEC: Take displacement limitations off of the GTE class to help lessen the need for waivers. Further changes to GTE should include the allowance and balancing of hybrid drive trains and more liberal allowance of forced induction where it exists on the road car homologation.

Chris

I never have understood why the production class has an artificial displacement limit when some of the current or potential cars have larger engines. If you have a production class let them use their engines for Pete's sake!

[Jonerz]

Originally Posted by joeb

I never have understood why the production class has an artificial displacement limit when some of the current or potential cars have larger engines. If you have a production class let them use their engines for Pete's sake!

Yeah, and while smaller displacement engines is clearly a trend that is happening in the auto industry, and it can be a valid part of the solution to increase efficiency and lessen pollution it isn't necessarily the WHOLE answer or perhaps even a long term necessity. Don't limit the possible "answers to the question" both in terms of go-fast and road relevance by limiting displacement. It is just lazy. I think the ACO have learned that with their changes to P1 (although the stupid 5.5L privateer thing needs to be rectified) and I expect with the next rules update the displacement limit will leave. Restrictors and weights can be adjusted for various cars. That was exhibited to some degree in the ACO rules previously and a very valid solution was exhibited in IMSA (the sliding scale) for years and years to good success.

Chris

[I Rosputnik]

Remembering an idea I had for the WTCC, could work for WEC and help the smaller series at the same time. You could have the European rounds of WEC forming the ELMS, US rounds forming part of the ALMS and the Asian rounds forming the AsLMS.

So for example (Using this year as a guideline):

1. Sebring (ALMS)
2. Bahrain (AsLMS)
3. Spa (ELMS)
4. Silverstone (ELMS)
5. Le Mans (WEC - Halo Race)
6. Imola (ELMS)
7. Fuji (AsLMS)
8. Interlagos (ALMS)
9. Petit Le Mans (ALMS)
10. Shanghai (AsLMS)

Teams that do the whole calendar are eligible for WEC.

That way the smaller championships stay connected to WEC, but at the same time there will be healthy grids for the races. Keeping it to 10 races helps to keep things simple. (Le Mans would only give points for WEC, but the invite system for teams outside of WEC would remain in place.)

[gregtummer]

^^ I like it.

Also, get a good TV deal. Arrange a deal with the TV channel "Velocity". There isn't much content on there, so they could fit 6-7 hours into their schedule to show the races live. Then have a weekly half hour discussion show telling us about the past races this season, the upcoming races this season, the rumor mill, interviews, etc. Hindy would be a perfect guy for this.

Have the manufacturers build 8-10 cars for private teams to run. That way one of two private teams can run Audis or Toyotas and there will be enough cars for backups. If the privateers can't handle diesel or hybrid technology, build them a normal car.

Don't be drastically changing the rules every year or every other year. Privateers can't afford to buy new cars every year, so keep the rules mostly the same for 3-4 years. Then when the rules have to be changed, give the teams roughly a 2 year warning in advance, so they can plan ahead.

Keep the classes simple so that people can understand them and can tell the difference between the classes. WEC isn't that bad, but most people can't tell the difference between GTE-Pro and GTE-Am. 4 classes is enough.

[kurski]

Originally Posted by I Rosputnik

That way the smaller championships stay connected to WEC, but at the same time there will be healthy grids for the races. Keeping it to 10 races helps to keep things simple. (Le Mans would only give points for WEC, but the invite system for teams outside of WEC would remain in place.)

10 races calendar would be just right, but I would take it according to the Imola Grand Prix. WSC was once Mexico and Canada, but I do not think that there is a current series going.

Originally Posted by gregtummer

Also, get a good TV deal. Arrange a deal with the TV channel "Velocity". There isn't much content on there, so they could fit 6-7 hours into their schedule to show the races live. Then have a weekly half hour discussion show telling us about the past races this season, the upcoming races this season, the rumor mill, interviews, etc. Hindy would be a perfect guy for this.

I agree that should be done to get a good TV contract (Eurosport or others?) and rumors, speculation, and interviews etc would sound great. Broadcasts still need to Formula One of such types of style in a professional manner on and would also be a moment before the races in GridWalk.

WEC series should also have a several of engineering interviews, and demonstrations of cars in different areas such as cabin, engine and technology. The teams are able to present an open factories and competitive operation.

Originally Posted by gregtummer

Have the manufacturers build 8-10 cars for private teams to run. That way one of two private teams can run Audis or Toyotas and there will be enough cars for backups. If the privateers can't handle diesel or hybrid technology, build them a normal car.

Each factory LMP1 team should have three cars and the WEC needs more car manufacturers will hopefully Honda and others come. Private team must also be involved in the competitive spirit at their like in other series and hopefully some private team could challenge the factory team's LMP1 class.

[formerf1champ]

I Rosputnik doesn't have a bad idea. However, the older I get, the more I realise, that championships are overrated. There's only two that seriously count, the F1 and WRC titles. Everything else? It's all about winning big races in those series. A "World Sportscar/GT Championship", under any guise, is pointless. What does winning those series mean? Nothing. While it may only be one race and it's not called a "World Championship", the Le Mans 24 hour is , in effect, a World Championship event on it's own, even if it's an unofficial title.

My advice to improve the WEC, is not to have it. That is not having a crack at it.

[Purist]

I don't care if Le Mans is the big race; just one race isn't enough. I can't say that I'd particularly care about it if the ALMS was only Sebring and Road Atlanta. Part of that is, I wouldn't really know that these things even existed without those other races, and for all I'd know, they're still running Porsche 962s and Jaguar XJRs at Le Mans.

Besides, there is long history of sportscar racing in Britain (Dundrod, Goodwood, Silverstone, Brands Hatch, Oulton Park), France (Montlhery, Reims, Le Mans, Dijon, Paul Ricard), Portugal (Vila Real, Estoril, Algarve), Belgium (Spa), Germany (Nurburgring, Hockenheim), Italy (Mugello, Monza, Enna, Imola, Mille Miglia, Targa Florio, Coppa Acerbo), and you get the picture. So Le Mans is the big one, but these other places do NOT deserve to be shafted just because of that. At least some of these deserve to see the big cars/teams/drivers as well, and I want to see more of that heritage, those great circuits, and those awesome cars than just what a single race can offer. It takes a big series with the pull to get sponsors and TV to get those things, so that those of us who can't just go on a whim to all of those places in person can partake of the sport as well.

Elsewhere in the world of racing, CART was FAR MORE to me than merely the Indianapolis 500.

After several seasons of a lot more Winston Cup races on network TV, the Daytona 500 isn't quite so standalone anymore, and once the series goes to TNT and ESPN after the first 12-13 races on FOX, I'm not really fired up about it anymore, until the next season starts.

Apart from "futbol" and Wimbledon, the typical stick and ball games/sports just don't do it for me. Auto racing fills that gap, period, because, for me, it is the only thing that can, and it has a nice, LONG season to boot. (And let's face it, here in the States, we don't see much of the crazy winter sports I like-skiing, bobsledding, etc-so those don't provide a reliable fall-back either.)

[MagVanisher]

Originally Posted by I Rosputnik

Remembering an idea I had for the WTCC, could work for WEC and help the smaller series at the same time. You could have the European rounds of WEC forming the ELMS, US rounds forming part of the ALMS and the Asian rounds forming the AsLMS.

So for example (Using this year as a guideline):

1. Sebring (ALMS)
2. Bahrain (AsLMS)
3. Spa (ELMS)
4. Silverstone (ELMS)
5. Le Mans (WEC - Halo Race)
6. Imola (ELMS)
7. Fuji (AsLMS)
8. Interlagos (ALMS)
9. Petit Le Mans (ALMS)
10. Shanghai (AsLMS)

Teams that do the whole calendar are eligible for WEC.

That way the smaller championships stay connected to WEC, but at the same time there will be healthy grids for the races. Keeping it to 10 races helps to keep things simple. (Le Mans would only give points for WEC, but the invite system for teams outside of WEC would remain in place.)

Um, should you replace Bahrain with Abu Dhabi, as well as replacing Fuji with Suzuka if ever?

[MJones94]

I keep having to remind myself that 2012 WEC is not over yet, it is just that we are in a massive chasm of time between Le Mans and Silverstone. Closing that gap up might keep the momentum of the championship stable, rather than the new fan suddenly losing interest after Le Mans.