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Old 13 May 2014, 01:51 (Ref:3405679)   #1
wnut
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Gear Ratios

Clearly the gear ratios based on simulation programs are an issue.

Is it fair that the smaller teams with less sophisticated simulation programs are stuck with ratios that were nominated at the beginning of the season, and only allowed one change mid season?

Why is there so much disparity with the gear ratios used by the Mercedes powered teams? Were the choices based on the same information from Mercedes?

Interesting piece by Peter Windsor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOk48pTmu8g
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Old 14 May 2014, 14:31 (Ref:3406227)   #2
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wdave0 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridwdave0 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Looks like the same problem as the noses - unintended or inadequately thought out consequences of a rule, in this case cost cutting, fan out to create several issues. Even discounting simulation sophistication there would be differences based on assumptions and premises, such as where is max revs in 8th, how upsetting "seamless" shifting would be in a corner etc. The range of tracks is really huge, imho too big for a sole season long gearset. Even allowing final drive ratio changes would help and not significantly increase expense. It does indeed seem like a restriction appropriate to stock based classes, not real supposedly super sophisticated racecars.
One note re Williams vs MB ratios - if MB set their ratios to fit Monza then they are tall for the rest of the tracks where Williams with their short gearing are good for most of the first half and can raise them for the second half which includes Monza, and also might accommodate an increase in useable power as the systems get dialed in.
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Old 14 May 2014, 15:16 (Ref:3406245)   #3
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tristancliffe should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridtristancliffe should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
That's what I would do. Start the season with what seems appropriate for first half of season given circuits visited, initial power/torque/rev/downforce data, and roughly anticipated gain from upgrades. Then at half way point reappraise using the vast amounts of addition data gained from first half of season.

Doubtless more complex than that, but seems pretty obvious workflow.
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Old 14 May 2014, 19:25 (Ref:3406350)   #4
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This is like the unreliable engines that run out of fuel before the end of the race.
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Old 14 May 2014, 19:25 (Ref:3406351)   #5
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I don’t see a “clear problem”. I just see different teams coming to different answers (just like most everything else). I expect they are all just working on slightly different assumptions or priorities when selecting gearing. I watched Peter Windsor’s video and he might have a point, but I don’t know if I totally believe him. He talks about impacts of more shifts on rear tire wear. I have no doubt that more shifts results in a larger total amount of “shock” load going through the entire drivetrain. I am not convinced that this is a significant factor in one team having better rear tire wear than another. I do think this could impact longevity of other drivetrain parts.

I do like the idea mentioned above about if you can change ratios mid season then the initial ratios might have been optimized for the first half of the season and the new ratios for the second half. While other teams might have just felt they would go with a single set that potentially could work for the entire season and then would make adjustments mid season if they wanted to? I also have to wonder if some teams are looking to focus on running the engines in specific rev ranges at specific times/speeds. So hypothetically, let’s say the engines are more efficient at lower revs, so maybe at times Mercedes might short short shift up through the gears to help conserve fuel. At other times they may choose to leave it in gear to run up to max RPM? While teams that have shorter gears might not be able to utilize short shifts as well as those with longer gears (particularly on the higher gears).

Overall, I don't see gearing selection differences being a large factor in the championship.

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Old 14 May 2014, 20:17 (Ref:3406380)   #6
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Tucky should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridTucky should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridTucky should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I agree that the gearings don't have as much of an impact than what they thought before the season began, but I quite want to see what gears each of the teams chose. I'd be interested in seeing whether any of the teams decided to put in long gears for races like China and Malaysia, in the hope that the other teams would be focused on short ratios for races like Monaco, or vice versa
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Old 14 May 2014, 20:25 (Ref:3406385)   #7
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It is interesting, I agree. An "issue" that F1 should be particularly worried about, clearly not.

It might have been tempting to set them for the best compromise pre-Monza and then change them at Monza. You'd have to be confident of your analysis. However as I can have a pretty good stab at the maximum revs I'll get at a new circuit I'm sure it isn't that much of a challenge for an F1 team. I bet they don't have that much of a safety margin.
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Old 15 May 2014, 09:28 (Ref:3406540)   #8
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It is interesting, I agree. An "issue" that F1 should be particularly worried about, clearly not.

It might have been tempting to set them for the best compromise pre-Monza and then change them at Monza. You'd have to be confident of your analysis. However as I can have a pretty good stab at the maximum revs I'll get at a new circuit I'm sure it isn't that much of a challenge for an F1 team. I bet they don't have that much of a safety margin.
My major "issue" with the fixed nominated ratios is, would the racing be closer and better if everyone was able to change their ratios?

Apparently Williams were running out of revs in 8th gear on the straight in Spain, but Mercedes were in 6th with revs to spare, seems like a huge disparity.
Given that we change ratios in club racing, this really doesn't seem a huge impost on an F1 team with 800 employees.
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Old 15 May 2014, 09:39 (Ref:3406548)   #9
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wolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridwolfhound should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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My major "issue" with the fixed nominated ratios is, would the racing be closer and better if everyone was able to change their ratios?

Apparently Williams were running out of revs in 8th gear on the straight in Spain, but Mercedes were in 6th with revs to spare, seems like a huge disparity.
Given that we change ratios in club racing, this really doesn't seem a huge impost on an F1 team with 800 employees.
One major change with the new power units is their much flatter torque curve. This allows much more flexability with gear ratios than with the old V8's.

If Williams wre running out of revs in Spain they surely would have had the same problem in Malaysia and China.
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Old 15 May 2014, 09:56 (Ref:3406555)   #10
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Tucky should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridTucky should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridTucky should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
But maybe we'll see the Williams flying around Monaco with shorter gear ratios.
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