Changes to Qualifying format (merged)

[Redblurr]

Qualification changes? Yes please! I agree with these though, let's get rid of the 2hr mind numbing experience first seen in Melbourne and hopefully never again.


http://www.itv-f1.com/news/news_story/20064
Renault boss Flavio Briatore said: “It was stupid for us and stupid for spectators. It was much too long for television and made no sense.

“We must get together and discuss this. Something can be done quickly if we all agree. Only the stupid never change their minds.”

I'm with Bernie on this one, he wants to bring back the free for all 1 hr extravaganza. Go on Bernie make them agree

[Aysedasi]

Originally posted by Redblurr
....let's get rid of the 2hr mind numbing experience first seen in Melbourne and hopefully never again.

Did the race last 2 hours......?

[Wrex]

Sorry, I'm not such a traditionalist that I want the old one hour sessions back.

I would prefer however, superpole with qualifying cars. ie no race fuel.

[Redblurr]

Originally posted by Aysedasi
Did the race last 2 hours......?

It was terriable I know, but Schumi showed merci and did not lap the Williams

[Aysedasi]

Probably as dull an experience as I have ever had watching motor racing. I didn't see anything of the qualifying, but if it was even more boring than the race, I sympathise with those who did watch it.....

[Bononi]

Qualifying was never good but now it has hit the bottom. Changes now !!!!!

Let's get back to the old format, or simply give 2 laps for each other in one session, it will be better than now.

[shiny side up!]

I agree with Wrex, a 'superpole' single-lap qualifying run on low fuel would make me a happy camper. Even if they were not allowed to do anything between qualy and the race but add fuel...

The old one hour format with 4 runs each is OK with me as well, and it is something that is (was) unique to F1, so it wouldn't hurt my feelings if they went back to that, either.

[Adam43]

I am not a fan of the single lap. Watching the drivers on these isn't as exciting as before IMHO.

I also don't like the fuel situation, I don't think this adds to the grid mix-up. As every starts with fuel that gives them a similar pace.

I would prefer the old system.

However perhaps as a comprimise we should have, as Wrex suggests, a single lap low fuel Q session. I prefer low fuel Q as it puts drivers together who may be running different strategies and hence the guy ahead might be slower at the start of the race (whereas now the guy ahead is quicker, because he is in the same situation as the end of Q).

[krt917]

Yes, I was just thinking the same. Ideally, go back to the original format, but if not, then a low-fuel one-lap session would be the next best thing.

[neil_davidson2]

How about combining both formats... Run for an hour on Friday with 12 laps available and then run the single shot on Saturday. And count the quickest time on Friday together with the single lap time on saturday to get the final grid positions?

The first "qualifying" hour last Saturday seemed completely aimless.

[krt917]

Quite like the idea of combining both forms, but I'm not quite so struck on the idea of combining the times. I always feel like the pole should go to the guy who has really put together that one, special effort.

Would be better than the current format, though!

[BertMk2]

How about the DTM(ish) style qualifying? Everyone goes out in qualifying 1 (low fuel) and gets x number of runs/laps over a one hour session. The quickest 10 from qualifying 1 then go on fo a single lap showdown to determine the starting order for the top 10, the remaining 10 cars start according to the positions of qualifying 1.

[krt917]

Yes, that might be an interesting idea. W0ouldn't mind seeing it if the FIA are determined not going back to the old 12-lap system.

[neil_davidson2]

That could work...

I know what you mean about pole going to the all-out lap krt, but personally I like the idea of two sessions (something on Friday preferably) but really don't see the point of the first session simply setting the running order for the second. Simply running one after the other in last race order would achieve enough of a lottery if that's what's required. I think the first session needs to count towards the grid in some way. Berts suggestion would certainly make that happen.

Oh - and yes I agree that in qualifying the cars should be able to run as quickly as they want to and not have to worry about fuel loads until race day.

[Mr V]

I much prefered the old style qualifying, more value for money, but the new system makes for better racing. (Melbourne excepted )

I'd propose going back to the old style, but with changes....

Every driver gets four 3 lap runs, each run has to be made in each 15 minute time frame of the hour, but the last run (i.e in the last 15 minutes) has to be done on race fuel, and then we see the cars go into Parc Ferme overnight as they do now.

[Adam43]

I like the idea to get them out at times spread out over the hour, but making the last run with race fuel will just make that effort pointless.

Why not make it 12 laps and only an half hour session? Saturday's F1 TV program could probably be just an hour affair then? An hour session is probably short enough to mean they will be very little time with no cars. You could even run it straight after a short warm up session so the track isn't green. TV companies might even want to show a little of that as a slight build up to the competetive qualifying session.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by AdamAshmore
but making the last run with race fuel will just make that effort pointless.

Not so sure. You see, the reason i thought of this is that all cars obviously have 3 runs to set their fastest times, but the cars that are quicker, will proberbly go heavier for the race, the cars that qualify slower will proberbly go lighter, thus, allowing for the possibility of more racing.

The other thing is, i like the Parc Ferme rule, and filling the cars with fuel for the last run is the only way i can see the FIA being able to enforce the (PF) rule

[neil_davidson2]

But what would actually be the point of making the last run? Surely it's the same as doing three qualifying runs and then allowing the cars to set their fuel level prior to the race?

Altho I guess it may give an indication of who would be running heavy at the start of a race you'd also end up with people sand-bagging...

[Adam43]

It seems that Bernie thinks a system where they all run together in preferable too: http://www.autosport.com/newsitem.asp?id=26248&s=5
(apologises for linking to an article which has the word 'slam' in the title).

The Bernster
That would be much more exciting, in my opinion,” he told BBC Five Live. “It wasn't done to make it more exciting, it was done because the teams with the smaller budgets that weren't up front said they never got seen during qualifying because people concentrated on the fast cars.
I said that's complete nonsense because if people don't want to watch, they won't watch.

[ralf fan]

last year with Fri and Sat was better!! Melborne was so boring.... and 2 mins is really not enough for the teams like Minardi to change setups etc....

yeh wouldnt mind going back to the old system...

[Phoenix1]

Go for Bernies idea but I'd revise it more. I say:

Qualifying is 1hr 10 minutes
12 Laps, as before maximum.
The first 6 laps 'expire' after the first 30 minutes
Rookies and teams in the bottom 4 are allowed to run an extra 3 laps in the first ten minutes. This should not be objected by the bigger teams as they are highly unlikely to beat them especially as the track will still be 'dirty'. Test drivers should also be allowed to run 3 laps then so more 'bang for your buck' as it where for sponsors. Cars will pull up to there pits after there last lap have 30 minutes in which to effect changes to the setup, engines and gearbox changes are allowed at a penelty of 5 grid slots for each.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by neil_davidson2
But what would actually be the point of making the last run? Surely it's the same as doing three qualifying runs and then allowing the cars to set their fuel level prior to the race?

Because the 4 runs would be mandatory, or lose places for not doing the final run. (Just thinking of ways to make it more worthwhile for the spectator here)

[Red]

Mr V, what would stop me to go out for 3 laps, set a best time then go out for a 4th and last with full tanks! Indeed I'd lose 1 second per lap, but who cares, I got the pole anyway!

If you REALLY want a compromise, let them 12 laps, and no refuelling or stuff. But that still sucks big time. Just get back to the old system.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by Red
Mr V, what would stop me to go out for 3 laps, set a best time then go out for a 4th and last with full tanks! Indeed I'd lose 1 second per lap, but who cares, I got the pole anyway!

Thats the whole point, i did say earlier that they would each get the chance to set 3 fast laps. Then they get a chance to go out 1 more time, this also allows them to check that the car feels ok with their full/ half full tanks, plus gives the spectator the chance to see the cars one last time on the saturday

[Red]

Hmm, Mr V, good point! However I have an even better idea! 1 hour, 12 laps AND another 30 minutes session next Sunday, when they can test whatever fuel loads and obviously entertain the spectators! Besides, it's just a couple of hours before the race actually happens, not full 24 hours before!