RallyX Nordic 2019

[crossfades]

Things are shaping up for next year and some huge news for the series was released today. I copy-pasted the new technical regulations but I highly suggest reading the article.

"In order to keep costs down and demonstrate that purchasing a current-specification rallycross Supercar is a solid investment, the following technical rules have been confirmed:

No expensive data-loggers will be introduced in the series

Non-homologated ECU software will be permitted

There will be no limit on the number of engines or turbos – the preference is for competitors to open their engine and fix it or use a lower-cost turbo which can be changed when needed

Direct-injection engines will be banned

Front radiators in Supercars will be outlawed to improve reliability

In conjunction with long-term series partner Cooper Tires, a harder compound tyre will be run in the Supercar class in 2019 to help equalise car performance

https://www.rallyx.se/2018/11/15/ral...Y5hiVrXDMizflo

[1975DCS]

Originally Posted by crossfades

Things are shaping up for next year and some huge news for the series was released today. I copy-pasted the new technical regulations but I highly suggest reading the article.



"In order to keep costs down and demonstrate that purchasing a current-specification rallycross Supercar is a solid investment, the following technical rules have been confirmed:



No expensive data-loggers will be introduced in the series



Non-homologated ECU software will be permitted



There will be no limit on the number of engines or turbos – the preference is for competitors to open their engine and fix it or use a lower-cost turbo which can be changed when needed



Direct-injection engines will be banned



Front radiators in Supercars will be outlawed to improve reliability



In conjunction with long-term series partner Cooper Tires, a harder compound tyre will be run in the Supercar class in 2019 to help equalise car performance



https://www.rallyx.se/2018/11/15/ral...Y5hiVrXDMizflo

Why not allowed direct injection? You could not even develop a VW Golf R engine for example. It is better to ban stuff that isn't available on road going hatches like ALS (this wil decrease the size in turbo in order to keep it spool enough quickly), kevlar and special plastics.

[Silhuette]

Is it not obvious? They want to limit cost by staying with commonly available engines and parts all drivers can purchase.

Direct injection engines are more complex and cost much more than the traditional engines. And when you say ban ALS, which technologies would you ban? There are several ways to solve the problem, some of which are possible on production engines - Toyota even offered it stock on the Celica GT4.

[tbtstt]

I actually disagree with regards to the software control. Relative to the cost of a Supercar I don't think homologated ECU's & software are that expensive, but it's an area where an unfair advantage could be gained.

Banning front mount cars is an interesting move. Am I right in saying only three cars have run front mount setups? (PSRXVW, OMSE and Munnich?).

[crossfades]

Originally Posted by tbtstt

Banning front mount cars is an interesting move. Am I right in saying only three cars have run front mount setups? (PSRXVW, OMSE and Munnich?).

Correct, I didn't know about Münnich though. Andreas Eriksson is very involved in the series, perhaps some of the engine failures for OMSE in WRX inspired the front mount ban.

[1975DCS]

Originally Posted by Silhuette

Is it not obvious? They want to limit cost by staying with commonly available engines and parts all drivers can purchase.

Direct injection engines are more complex and cost much more than the traditional engines. And when you say ban ALS, which technologies would you ban? There are several ways to solve the problem, some of which are possible on production engines - Toyota even offered it stock on the Celica GT4.

Well you actually gave your own answer? Why ban direct injections engines which are available on thousands of VAG and PSA engines while there aren't many Road going hatches with proper ALS (like you see in RX) let alone kevlar body panels and wide body cars. They seem to be cutting costs in the wrong directions.

[Silhuette]

Ah ok. So you want to introduce production based engines? That would be a pretty radical move. I'm not sure anyone running a production based engine in WRX today?

[1975DCS]

Originally Posted by Silhuette

Ah ok. So you want to introduce production based engines? That would be a pretty radical move. I'm not sure anyone running a production based engine in WRX today?

AFAIK all engines are based around Road going production engine, despite being heavily tuned and modified. Of course current RX look the bizz and Rallycross have always been about modified cars. But some things are now discussed for costs while they are commonly available, that was my point.

[crossfades]

Originally Posted by 1975DCS

AFAIK all engines are based around Road going production engine, despite being heavily tuned and modified. Of course current RX look the bizz and Rallycross have always been about modified cars. But some things are now discussed for costs while they are commonly available, that was my point.

Direct-injection engines are expensive according to a friend of mine who has a lifetime of experience as a mechanic in rallying and rallycross, and plenty of those years in Supercars/Div 1. This decision was according to him a reasonable one.

[Silhuette]

All the engines come from specialized builders and there are pretty much zero production parts in any current RX engine, unless you count the original starting point of the block and in some cases head casting.

I get the assumption that more production like engines will bring cost down, but that would probably require a drastic reduction in performance.

[1975DCS]

Originally Posted by Silhuette

All the engines come from specialized builders and there are pretty much zero production parts in any current RX engine, unless you count the original starting point of the block and in some cases head casting.

I get the assumption that more production like engines will bring cost down, but that would probably require a drastic reduction in performance.

I really doubt that: by banning the ALS you automatically reduce the sensible size of the turbo. Combined with a ditch in restrictor all decent engines are good for about 500 bhp. Engines have always been in the 500-700 bhp region, so not impossible by today's standards. It is the torque that has been up quite a bit and that introduces difficulties.

[Silhuette]

Here's a take on the old Citroën engines Godfrey used to build. These are the kind of cheap, old style engines NordicX want to revert to.

https://www.racetuners.com/building-...ians-thoughts/

I don't really understand how starting with a DI engine block is going to have any impact on the build cost. According to the grapevine, a modern VW direct injection engine is more than twice the cost of the old Pipo engines PSRX used to run. And the Pipo engines would leave this one far behind.

[1975DCS]

Originally Posted by Silhuette

Here's a take on the old Citroën engines Godfrey used to build. These are the kind of cheap, old style engines NordicX want to revert to.

https://www.racetuners.com/building-...ians-thoughts/

I fail to see how starting with a DI engine block going to have any impact on the build cost. According to the grapevine, a modern VW direct injection engine is more than twice the cost of the old Pipo engines PSRX used to run. And the Pipo engines would leave this one far behind.

I am not saying we need DI engines. My point is that Kevlar and ALS are none existing on road going cars and subject to higher costs. With running high compression ratio as they currently do all costs go even more up...