F3 Question

[Francesca]

Has a rookie ever won the British F3 Championship?

[Dr Venom]

Not sure, but my money is on Hamilton doing just that with Manor next year.

[ringo]

senna???

[piquetfan]

Of course, many times. Barrichello for example.

The question is whether they were 'real' rookies.

I'm saying this because Barrichello had a lot of experience in single seaters in Brazil. Then he went to Europe with a lot of money from multinational companies, but decided to compete in a lower category (he did European Formula Opel, whose cars were much slower than F3 cars and the drivers were not as good).

He obviously dominated such semi-professional championship, and with big money and a title, he came to England to race for one of the best teams. He then won the title.

That's why I never believed that the 'Jungle Boy' (Pizzonia) was a phenomenon. He won everything before F3, but that wasn't fair. He had a lot of money from Petrobras and competed in semi-professional championships in England.

Was Jan Magnussen in his first season?

[Daisy]

Wasn't Pizzonia a rookie in 1999?

[piquetfan]

Originally posted by ringo
senna???

With Senna the story is the same, he had experience in Brazil and a lot of money. But instead of trying F3, he did FFord where he got to learn all the main British tracks.

With a lot of money, experience in British tracks, a title and his talent, he obviously got the best seat (he raced for Ron Dennis) and won the title. In other words, it took him 2 full seasons to get to F1.

Emerson Fittipaldi on the other hand won the Lombank F3 championship in his first European year. He did F2 the next year. Again, 2 years to get to F1.

Piquet did exactly what Nelsinho is doing now. First season, straight to F3, without an established British team(living on prize money for half a season). Second season, he already knew the tracks and bought a new car, and won it easily. Like Emerson and Senna, it took him 2 years to get to F1.

[JohnMiller]

Mauricio Gugelmin?
Jan Magnussen?

Years ago I'm sure it was mainly the case that drivers only did one year in F3.

[bella]

hamilton won't do it, don't be so unfair. it IS a two year title, no matter how much testing he does.

in general, i'm not sure how much the formula itself has changed within the past few years to make it more difficult to win now. perhaps people are learning less in renault than they would in ford, and have to learn it when they get into f3...

[flexible-flyer]

you need the talent, the budget, the stability, the car and the luck. anybody who managed to do it intheir first season likely had all this and differing amounts.

[paulzinho]

Its strange also how VDM went from being pretty useless in Fford and last year to being champ so suddenly, perhaps alot these days is down to experience.

How many years of F Renault did Danny Watts do? 3 wasn't it?

[carbontub]

Lewis wont do it next year its definetly a two year program at least nowadays.

[Paul Rayner]

If Hamilton does British F3 I don't see any reason why he'd be any less successful than Jamie Green has this year. I'd expect him to be similar to what he was in his first year of Formula Renault, ie a couple of wins at least.

He'd definitely be in with a shout, especially with the unknown factor of a Mercedes engine behind him.

[Morcilman]

he will be better that Green, because he has matured a lot this year. He had to pass hard times and get over them, so he is better prepared for F3 than Green was. He will shine next year, my money is with him as well!

[chevron]

Paulzinho.
Your comment about VDM being useless in FFord is laughable.I would remind you that he finished 3rd in the championship in 2001 and then went on to win the Festival in the same year.
This all in the 2001 Mygale which was probably the worst car to come from them in many years.

[littleman]

Hamilton will undoubtably be a front runner next year in F3 but won't win the championship.It will take him at least half a season to get comfortable with it by which time the second year guys will be gone.Learning how to qualify and to get the bloody things off the line isn't a two minute exercise! If they stay for 2004 the championship will go to Piquet,Green,Watts or Carroll.

[paulzinho]

Originally posted by chevron
Paulzinho.
Your comment about VDM being useless in FFord is laughable.I would remind you that he finished 3rd in the championship in 2001 and then went on to win the Festival in the same year.
This all in the 2001 Mygale which was probably the worst car to come from them in many years.

Yeah, I'll eat my humble pie for that, didn't really think about what I was saying, though he didn't show the signs of being the driver he has turned out to be whereas the stars of that year (Dahlgren and Long) have had harder times, Long in prticular seems to have struggled with sponsorship but seems to be doing pretty well in Porsches now. I think a few people were surprised when Carlin snapped him up. Last year too he was never really noticeable yet this year he's shown some talent. But Green and Nelsinho have had far more spectacular seasons than VDM had last year.

Thing was though, VDM didn't win at all until the festival, and in my opinion Long would've won thefinal easily had he not been disqualified for the Dahlgren incident.

[Paul Rayner]

Originally posted by littleman
Hamilton will undoubtably be a front runner next year in F3 but won't win the championship.It will take him at least half a season to get comfortable with it by which time the second year guys will be gone.Learning how to qualify and to get the bloody things off the line isn't a two minute exercise!

Of course it isn't a two minute excercise! It took Green at least... one round to get used to it this year! Pizzonia won it in 2001 in his first season. That was only two years ago. I don't see why it's so impossible for Hamilton, or anyone else, to win it at the first go. It usually takes longer, but not always.

[PaulSands]

Any chance of Hamilton turning out for the last two rounds of this years championship now that he has secured the FR title?
I seem to remember the like of Piquet,Warwick, Senna having a couple of end of season outings before going on to challenge the following year

[PaulSands]

good source here
http://www.clarinet.fi/~spitkane/F3British/

[JR Ewing]

So
Pizzonia
Hynes?
Magnussen
(David) Brabham
Jarvilehto
Senna (da Silva)
Byrne
Palmer

[PaulSands]

given Brundle's year experience he should've done Senna

[sgrok]

My money's on Piquet, or Watts (if he stays in F3). I'd say the unknown factor of the mercedes engine is a disadvantage to Hamilton, plus with 2 years bedding into FRenault... I dunno, piquet's looking hot, and his pops will be determined to clinch the championship.

[piquetfan]

Originally posted by PaulSands
good source here
http://www.clarinet.fi/~spitkane/F3British/

This source is much better

http://www.motorsportsetc.com/champs/gbr_f3.htm

It goes back to 1951 (British F3 is as old as F1!), and is more correct.

The page you suggested has some mistakes.
Look at what they say about the 1978 season. Is says there was a single championship, but in fact there were two. Warwick won one, and Piquet the other (breaking the record of wins held by Jackie Stewart). In the 50s, they sometimes had three different F3 championships running at the same time.

Down the single (and incorrect) 1978 list, it is also interesting to see the names of Alain Prost (with only 18 points), Nigel Mansell (with even less), and in the last position... a certain Eddie Jordan from Ireland, with zero points!!!

[Paul Rayner]

Originally posted by PaulSands
Any chance of Hamilton turning out for the last two rounds of this years championship now that he has secured the FR title?

He says not.

[pb btcc]

didn't Mika Hakkinen win the title in his first year in F3 way back in 1990??