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Old 29 May 2009, 13:51 (Ref:2471602)   #1
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climb should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridclimb should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
All FOTA Teams submit entries for 2010

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75680

.. So now they're all self suspended, like it happened to Williams?
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Old 29 May 2009, 14:01 (Ref:2471609)   #2
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Chatters should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridChatters should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Surprise surprise...
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Old 29 May 2009, 14:04 (Ref:2471611)   #3
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jab should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridjab should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridjab should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Thank God it's over

Well, as long as they can get the Concorde signed in 2 weeks...
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Old 29 May 2009, 14:29 (Ref:2471628)   #4
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chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!
not to be all doom and gloom, but is it over or has the battle just shifted to the next year when in all likelihood, the manufactures will be in a weaker position and the FOTA potentially smaller if the likes of Toyota withdraw due to their obvious financial woes.
add a couple of new teams/independents with one year of experience under their belts and i dont think i will care as much if Ferrari choose to leave F1 and really wont care if Red Bull or BMW are not there in 2011- Prodrive and Lola are more then adequate replacements.
also i cant help but feel that this compromise (whatever it is) only serves the FIA's purpose more than it does the teams so i expect next years negotiations to be more public and ridiculous. since taking the helm of FIA, has Max lost a battle to anyone? the teams had a realistic chance to get control of the sport and they lost it because really they have no where else to go and Max knows it.

on the bright side we get one more year where the the big teams get to spend stupid amounts of money!
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Old 29 May 2009, 15:13 (Ref:2471659)   #5
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Don't make any assumptions for the future... that's a battle to be won yet, for now it seems that the FIA has bended under the teams weight...
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Old 29 May 2009, 16:02 (Ref:2471688)   #6
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for now it seems that the FIA has bended under the teams weight...
Yeah right!

Max has got exactly what he wanted.He came up with a couple of ridiculous things that got them all hot and bothered,but what he realistically wanted was hidden underneath.
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Old 29 May 2009, 16:39 (Ref:2471708)   #7
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Q & A with John Howett.And FOTA still aren't interested in budget caps!

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75683

Clever of them to sign up 'as one'.I can see some problems yet,as we await an FIA response.
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Old 29 May 2009, 17:32 (Ref:2471735)   #8
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Q & A with John Howett.And FOTA still aren't interested in budget caps!

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75683

Clever of them to sign up 'as one'.I can see some problems yet,as we await an FIA response.
'We' ? That's interesting.
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Old 29 May 2009, 17:35 (Ref:2471737)   #9
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jab should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridjab should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridjab should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
As well as Max saving face, from what I've read it will be a budget cap in all but name so the teams can say a budget cap wasn't brought in

Also, note "all nine teams who are currently members of FOTA" - hmm...
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Old 29 May 2009, 17:45 (Ref:2471744)   #10
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Also, note "all nine teams who are currently members of FOTA" - hmm...
That makes sense because Williams are the only racing team.
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Old 29 May 2009, 18:29 (Ref:2471771)   #11
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Spritle has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Considering they signed conditionally, nothing is really over until the FIA responds.

A walk away is still on the table if Mad Max balks at their requests.
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Old 29 May 2009, 19:17 (Ref:2471791)   #12
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Max only has to keep quiet and make no 'public' decision..... FOTA thinks Max has to make the next move - I believe he doesn't and therefore probably won't. I'll eat mars bars for a week if he does (ok - maybe ONE hat!)

The result will not be 9 teams looking for a new series and several thousand people looking for a new jobs in a couple of weeks time, I'm pretty sure....

The FOTA announcement seems to ignore the teams' committment to Bernie until 2012. And Bernie will not take their breach of contract lying down.

Anyone taking bets on this? I know where I would place MY hard-earned...
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Old 29 May 2009, 19:50 (Ref:2471804)   #13
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The FOTA announcement seems to ignore the teams' committment to Bernie until 2012. And Bernie will not take their breach of contract lying down.
Quite right.

Williams have already said that they are commited to F1 until 2012,which is why they signed unconditionally.If the teams want to argue about the how,why,who,where,what and when,then they should have done the same.But for now I'm looking forward to Max and Bernie treating them all as one.
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Old 29 May 2009, 23:32 (Ref:2471907)   #14
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This James Allen article explains it all quite clearly I think.

http://www.itv-f1.com/Feature.aspx?T...Allen&id=45999
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Old 30 May 2009, 00:29 (Ref:2471936)   #15
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This James Allen article explains it all quite clearly I think.

http://www.itv-f1.com/Feature.aspx?T...Allen&id=45999
I have never thought of that !

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They want to make cost savings but they want to do so their way and on their terms.
Did I hear that here before ?
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Old 30 May 2009, 01:01 (Ref:2471948)   #16
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So nothing has changed really has it.Many mainstream news outlets are reporting that the crisis is over and things are back to normal.Far from it I think!
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Old 30 May 2009, 01:49 (Ref:2471955)   #17
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"The path is clear, Though no eyes can see, The course laid down long before.
And so with gods and men, The sheep remain inside their pen, Though many times they've seen the way to leave."

I'll let you guess where it's from...
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Old 30 May 2009, 01:50 (Ref:2471956)   #18
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So what do you think then Martyn? What will be the outcome of all of this...
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Old 30 May 2009, 06:55 (Ref:2471991)   #19
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Time to read between the lines again.
The next key step is the signing of the Concorde. That document covers the relationship between the Teams, FIA and importantly FOM the commercial rights holder. The importance in the release is the statement that all parties must sign the Concorde by June 12th.
Williams is under temperary suspension from FOTA, a situation which exists purely because they had already commited to 2012 in order to get their own money out of FOM when they faced financial meltdown before the season started.
The ball is now very firmly in the court of two parties, Max, if he can still rely on FIA backing, and Bernie, if he can afford to negotiate the required financial returns to the teams from FOM and still maintain enough of a share to pay CVC's interest bill.
I'm amazed that James talks of this as being just between FOTA and FIA. Surely he of all people shoul realise the level of importance of the media income to both FOTA and FOM.
The fat lady hasn't even gargled yet!
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Old 30 May 2009, 08:49 (Ref:2472020)   #20
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What FOTA has proposed is a cap but it isn't. I gather one of the things they were most peeved of is the term "budget cap"

Self-regulation does sound a bit dodgy but I'd take it as a compromise now just to get this sorry saga over with, providing FOTA's proposed budgets (£100m in 2010 and £40m in 2011) stay as they are
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Old 30 May 2009, 09:02 (Ref:2472024)   #21
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I'll let you guess where it's from...
No guessing,Genesis-Firth of Fifth.
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Old 30 May 2009, 09:50 (Ref:2472048)   #22
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So what do you think then Martyn? What will be the outcome of all of this...
F1 Jeremy,but not as we know it.

We have to wait and see what the FIA's response is,I'm sure that it will be something equally surprising.
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Old 30 May 2009, 17:41 (Ref:2472247)   #23
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Domenicali's idea of cost cutting seems to be along the lines of limiting the number of parts that you can use in a season.It doesn't actually stop you from spending millions of Euros on each part though does it.

"Then, further reductions have been defined in the area of aerodynamics, with restrictions imposed on the amount of development work, for example, restricting the number of different wings that can be used during the course of the championship."

And I'm sure that 6.5 million Euros will not get you a competetive engine and gearbox package.

"First and foremost, our starting point is the decision already taken by FOTA, to make available to the independent teams an engine-gearbox package at a cost of 6.5 million Euros for the entire season."

Read: It's yours for 6.5 mil Euros,but don't expect it to be up to our spec.

Full article.http://http://www.autosport.com/news...t.php/id/75722

We can only hope that the FIA go with the 'Mercedes plan'.
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Old 30 May 2009, 20:09 (Ref:2472283)   #24
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Domenicali's idea of cost cutting seems to be along the lines of limiting the number of parts that you can use in a season.It doesn't actually stop you from spending millions of Euros on each part though does it.

"Then, further reductions have been defined in the area of aerodynamics, with restrictions imposed on the amount of development work, for example, restricting the number of different wings that can be used during the course of the championship."

And I'm sure that 6.5 million Euros will not get you a competetive engine and gearbox package.

"First and foremost, our starting point is the decision already taken by FOTA, to make available to the independent teams an engine-gearbox package at a cost of 6.5 million Euros for the entire season."

Read: It's yours for 6.5 mil Euros,but don't expect it to be up to our spec.

Full article.http://http://www.autosport.com/news...t.php/id/75722

We can only hope that the FIA go with the 'Mercedes plan'.
I think with the engines frozen 6.5 million Euros WILL get a competitive drive train. (They are close to that figure this year I believe, Brawn anyone??? )The compromise that FOTA has come up preserves the technical integrity of F1. The average fan does not want to see spec cars but at the same time doesn't care or notice if the teams have different aero bits for EVERY race. It sounds like the teams may ban certain materials and standardize some parts to help costs as well. All in all, the solution FOTA has (the little we know of it) is much better than Mosley's. IMO it's not about Max or FOTA "winning", it is about re-creating an F1 that is sustainable but still suitable for privateers AND manufacturers. In that case Max's goal of getting costs down has been a success. It is too bad we have to deal with all the politics of getting to a sensible compromise. I think you are correct in thinking the FIA's response could be equally surprising. Either way, I feeling better about where all this is heading compared to a couple of weeks ago.
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Old 30 May 2009, 20:09 (Ref:2472284)   #25
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What the FOTA "compromise' does is ensure the FOTA teams remain in the championship and retain their income streams on their terms.

That is the purpose of the 'compromise'.

they do not want a budget cap in 2010, nor do they want to lose their right to compete.
There are assumptions about the Concorde but they are probably thinking that if it is exyended for another two years on its present terms that will provide som esecurity until a better deal can be worked out and ensures existing income streams are maintained.

The 'offer' really stuffs new teams for 2010 and creates some serious problems for Max if he accepts it. I doubt that he will accept it as it stands so its more negotiation....

If he accepted it the new teams would fall away, because they would require double the proposed cap.
They have entered under the proposed 2010 regulations so its going to be difficult to then change those regulations and the budget cap given the date for entries is closed. it's also grossly unfair to those teams.

FOTA has entered as a block. They have stated, according to Autosport, that the entry conditions are for the group as a whole. If the conditions are not met then the whole group will withdraw.
They have decided that there cannot be a F1 championship without them in 2010, so its all or nothing, accept it Max or we will all go.
That is a big bluff. The Brawn and Mclaren teams need the revenue stream. The manufacturers less so but RBR/STR would join in if they could use the same chassis in 2010... So will FOTA collapse if Max says no?

If Max calls it who blinks first?

If Max accepts the FOTA principles for 2010 he would probably demand some concessions to favour the limitation of costs for the new teams.

FOTA may have to provide engines and gearboxes for the new teams or pay for them, customer chassis (or technology transfer) may be allowed for 20102011, and the new teams may be allowed to sign up to the Concorde splitting the income stream another three ways for the next two years.

that would dent the revenue stream for the exisiting teams and make things easier for the new teams, but it may be the only way they can remain in the championship.

They have entered but only on their conditions. If the FIA does not accept them then they split FOTA and only the teams that accept the FIA conditions stay. the others are gone... Thats it.
The real power here is in the hands of the FIA. they own the intellectual rights to the championship. Its their property, not FOTA's.

If Max says no what is FOTA going to do...all go elswhere...they have no backup plan. Max will have some options available to him.
Grand Prix can be run in 2010 and the present drivers all have contracts that are specifically for F1, so if the teams are not in F1 they are probably not bound by them.....

The prospect of the current crop of F1 drivers all running overpowered F1 engined GP2 cars next year would be an entertaining one, and one many enthusiasts would enjoy.
The paying general public wouldn't know the difference.
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