The new great grid girl debate

[275 GTB-4]

Originally Posted by E.B

Sex is always where lots of dough is involved.

I rest (get it?) my case...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SU-CPkKw5lY

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

more sex in the bread isle!

personally dont see the connection either.

arguably the two biggest consumer products being advertised on the grid are cars and alcohol...two industries that are rapidly moving away from the 'mens only club' style of advertising. car commercials are family friendly and beer ads dont have girls in bikinis anymore.

most business are doing the same...western world is changing and men dont have the advantage in purchasing power anymore.

its not liberalism, progressivism or some other left wing conspiracy...this is straight up capitalism.

business moves to where the money is and F1 is no different.

evolve or die gentlemen!

Possibly the point you're missing is that the 'western world' is not top dog any more. F1 has gone worldwide for that reason and glamour still is a factor with the vast majority of the world population. From a global marketing perspective the western world is a minority and some may say is becoming an annoying irrelevance with the amount of PC crap.

[F1Guy]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

western world is changing and men dont have the advantage in purchasing power anymore.

Indeed. As an example of this, a company I work for has just fired a very experienced and liked male purchasing manager, then hired a female purchasing manager who has no experience in the industry, just so the company can conform to the modern western world thinking of females in a managerial position in the workplace!


That's the point you were trying to get at... right chilli?

[275 GTB-4]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

Possibly the point you're missing is that the 'western world' is not top dog any more. F1 has gone worldwide for that reason and glamour still is a factor with the vast majority of the world population. From a global marketing perspective the western world is a minority and some may say is becoming an annoying irrelevance with the amount of PC crap.

Que? F1 es todo incluido hasta ahora?

or if you prefer,,,

F1 hu shamil liljamie hataa alan?

[newlaprecord]

miss dem hoez

[bella]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

Possibly the point you're missing is that the 'western world' is not top dog any more. F1 has gone worldwide for that reason and glamour still is a factor with the vast majority of the world population. From a global marketing perspective the western world is a minority and some may say is becoming an annoying irrelevance with the amount of PC crap.

as a general rule, "pc crap" is usually a thing white men come out with when they're feeling excluded by inclusion. it wasn't long ago that everything anywhere was marketed towards and provided for that same white male minority.

i do agree with chilli to a point with the capitalism idea. example - a lot of the current wave of body acceptance amongst is motivated by profit. creating a body-positive/fat positive/whatever advert or social media message is a very transparent trend, especially amongst companies who don't need to sell an aspirational product motivated by fashion, weight or any other kind of weird perfection. second to that motivation is that it does help a significant number of people feel more accepted, if not better about themselves and that's an aspirational message in itself.

i mean, all of marketing and advertising makes me feel uneasy for all of the above reasons. the easiest way to deal with that is to ignore it completely and view everything at face value. makes you realise how much promotional stuff and advertising is absolutely absurd.

fun fact: where i work, the promotional girls the company employs occasionally to advertise the product get paid more than us, the people doing the work.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

Possibly the point you're missing is that the 'western world' is not top dog any more. F1 has gone worldwide for that reason and glamour still is a factor with the vast majority of the world population. From a global marketing perspective the western world is a minority and some may say is becoming an annoying irrelevance with the amount of PC crap.

Fair point, PC crap seems to be a very English speaking centered activity.

Anybody been to a Chinese or Japanese car show?

[bella]

Originally Posted by wnut

Anybody been to a Chinese or Japanese car show?

another fun fact: prevalence of promotional girls and preferred "look" is a direct reflection on society, its expectations of women and the qualities it values in us...

the same applies for niche events such as conventions, and exhibitions.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by bella

another fun fact: prevalence of promotional girls and preferred "look" is a direct reflection on society, its expectations of women and the qualities it values in us...

the same applies for niche events such as conventions, and exhibitions.

Bella, I have always thought that a person's value is something they set themselves, and not something that is imposed by others.

Cutting grid girls and promotional models is a restrictive and not empowering process imo.

I am sure that F1 management saved a lot of money on the promotion, and can add the savings to their own salaries at the year's end.

[newlaprecord]

to be honest, i havent noticed anything, until ive seen this thread here.

so i guess its one those issues that are super significant from a theoretical or philosophycal point of view, but actually are totally unimportant

same goes to the motor show in geneve. ive been going there since i was a little kid, noticed zero difference without ladies. didnt make the show any less good, nor did it improve it. ironically, the ONLY company at the whole show, who still sent some hot hostesses without any job, other than sitting on wheels, was the heavily f1 involved pirelli... as they were to only one, and also quite towards the back end, where you finish your day if you started it at pavillion 1...i must admit it did look weird. dare i say i sort of got the point all the other female workers had actual jobs at the shows, often offering insightful chats, even talking about technical features of the cars or upcoming events, professionally hosting VR and simulator experiences, catering food and bevarege...and these pirelli girls were just sitting on tires...so yea, i got the point now still, i feel its about zero dot zero percent important

[bella]

Originally Posted by wnut

Bella, I have always thought that a person's value is something they set themselves, and not something that is imposed by others.

i know you're just saying that to be contrary, but nah.

the people who decide what the promotional girls wear do so according to what will appeal most to the people at the event. if putting the girls in bikinis will get their brands featured in loads of photos and seen by loads of people, then that's what they'll do. if choosing petite girls with er, youthful looks and pigtails will get loads of guys creeping all over them then that's what they'll do.

[Peter Mallett]

I didnt notice their absence but then I didnt see the karting kids either. And that is why it should not have been an issue anyway. It simply demonstrates that people are trying to be "right on" for no good reason.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

I didnt notice their absence but then I didnt see the karting kids either. And that is why it should not have been an issue anyway. It simply demonstrates that people are trying to be "right on" for no good reason.

I saw the Karting Kids standing in front of the drivers on the start line, just before the national anthem was played.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I saw the Karting Kids standing in front of the drivers on the start line, just before the national anthem was played.

Yes I saw them as well. Kudos to them for trying to make this work.

The organizers probably need a larger selection of white suits for the kids to wear. There was quite a range of height between them all. Some of the shorter ones were absolutely swimming in their outfits!

Richard

[Peter Mallett]

Just one more point. All those complaining that grid girls were being exploited etc. only picked up on it when the decision was made.

It was apparently no problem before and I don't recall any threads questioning the presence of grid girls prior to this one.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Just one more point. All those complaining that grid girls were being exploited etc. only picked up on it when the decision was made.

It was apparently no problem before and I don't recall any threads questioning the presence of grid girls prior to this one.

I for one can absolutely say that is not correct. I have a habit of pointing out issues with the sport and nit picking other members posts (such as this exact post!). But while I may have a laundry list of complaints, I don't post about them all.

This is a topic that came up in a local (for me) club years ago and we had a very similar discussion (with similar polarizing camps). I very much then and now have been aware of the issue in other parts of motorsports including F1. I think the issue is sometimes you feel that the bad stuff just will never change, so why even mention it.

What I think happened is that the recent decision galvanized positions and triggered discussion that otherwise was left unsaid by many, but not all. This didn't come out of nowhere.

Richard

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Just one more point. All those complaining that grid girls were being exploited etc. only picked up on it when the decision was made.

It was apparently no problem before and I don't recall any threads questioning the presence of grid girls prior to this one.

Because, contrary to popular belief, people who are against grid girls don't run around shouting about it normally. I don't like it, and if asked I'd say it. But I never started threads on forums about it. This thread was created because F1 was going that way, so it was a relevant place to post about it.

Just because it isn't being posted, doesn't mean the opinion is not held.

If you'd prefer, I can make a different thread for everything about F1 I don't like. But nobody wants to read that, so I won't bother

[Peter Mallett]

Whilst I understand your position I'm not sure that silent reproach reflects the apparent hysteria directed at reasonable people who think.the decision.is daft And Richard show me the proof

[bella]

i wasn’t aware that we needed to express every opinion we have about absolutely everything to do with the sport on the forum.

[Akrapovic]

I think "hysteria" may be a little over the top for what has been discussed. If the topic comes up, then, of course, people will voice their opinion. In this very thread, I got told I should "get out more", and then told to "let is go", but only after the poster managed one more personal dig - "ignorance is bliss" for supporting the decision.

This "hysteria" appears to be the opposite way around from my point of view.

[Mike Harte]

Peter, I think that you are being a little unfair. By virtue of the fact that this thread, which was born out of another thread to become a seperate topic, has reached 15 pages does mean that it resonates with members.

I was one of the first to comment on the other thread about it because the vision of these young ladies doesn't sit well with me, although I must admit that in my younger days I had no problem enjoying the sight of these young ladies.

I think the problem is that that my opinions on the world in general have changed as I have got older and, I hope, matured. And on this topic, I have a 17 year old rather attractive granddaughter, and I have to ask myself whether I would be proud to see her parading around the F1 scene, and other motorsport events, in the sorts of costumes that they have been wearing up to now? The answer is a big NO. I wouldn't want her displaying her charms for all to see for the benefit of a lot of old lechers.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

And Richard show me the proof

Did you even read my reply?

I will shrink it down and bold one key point...

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

But while I may have a laundry list of complaints, I don't post about them all.

Can you conceive that people have thought about this for years and it didn't take this decision from F1 and/or this thread for people to think... "Holy crap! Grid girls... maybe not a great idea?" Maybe it was an enlightening moment for some, but for everyone? You trying to somehow measure prior post frequency to say that people didn't have specific thoughts in their own head... Wow, that is a stretch of logic!

With that being said, I have no doubt this has been discussed here before. But, I don't have the time to do the searching on the forum for you. Even if somehow proven wrong, a lack of evidence here doesn't mean it just appeared recently out of the either. And I am absolutely not going to share here the content of much older conversations on this topic that I had with others just to satisfy you.

Richard

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

I for one can absolutely say that is not correct. I have a habit of pointing out issues with the sport and nit picking other members posts (such as this exact post!). But while I may have a laundry list of complaints, I don't post about them all.

This is a topic that came up in a local (for me) club years ago and we had a very similar discussion (with similar polarizing camps). I very much then and now have been aware of the issue in other parts of motorsports including F1. I think the issue is sometimes you feel that the bad stuff just will never change, so why even mention it.

What I think happened is that the recent decision galvanized positions and triggered discussion that otherwise was left unsaid by many, but not all. This didn't come out of nowhere.

Richard

That reads like there's a lot of people not big enough to stick their head above the parapet - but give them a bandwagon to jump on and they're all rushing for the front seats.
I seem to remember many years ago doing Type Analysis there's a group who seek the approval of others by wanting to be seen to 'do the right thing'. I was in the opposite corner of the chart!

[Peter Mallett]

That.

And Richard I was a bit rushed but if someone says something like "I've always disagreed with.. .." then they'd better prove it. Not a dig at you per se but as above its just a bunch of people jumping on a bandwagon.

And Liberty knew it would be a good way to disguise the fact that they have no idea how to make the show better.

As I said, personally I didnt notice them when they were there but they were part of the DNA of the sport. Next theyll stop the champagne and I bet most folks don't know why champagne is sprayed on the podium anyway.

[ASCII Man]

All this would be so much more understandable if these grid girls were forced to do that job.
But they're not, so this whole thing feels to me like it's just basically people making decisions for others because of what they themselves feel, what they think others feel, or even should feel (which is worse), and not at all what these girls actually want to do.

A whole lotta hooey, if you ask me.