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Old 5 Nov 2007, 01:43 (Ref:2059741)   #1
RayF
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Formula First

I am sure I read a few posts recently from someone asking about Formula Firsts. I couldn't find the posts, so I am asking here - does anyone know where I can find good pictures of original early 90's UK Formula Firsts, and also of engine-gearbox compartments?
Thanks if possible.
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Old 5 Nov 2007, 10:01 (Ref:2059955)   #2
Stephen Green
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Have you tried writing to or telephoning MSV as it was a series started by the old Brands Hatch Leisure when Nicola Foulston was still at the healm. It is possible they may have some pictures in their archives somewhere?

Oliver Gavin won the inaugural series so I guess you could try writing to him as well?

Brands Hatch used them as race school cars for a few years too.
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Old 5 Nov 2007, 10:44 (Ref:2060000)   #3
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andy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridandy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Silverstone Race School were using them until fairly recently, too. Might still be - worth a phone call.
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Old 5 Nov 2007, 10:55 (Ref:2060011)   #4
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Oliver Gavin????

I think you mean Ben Edwards, Stephen.

Gavin did win it - in `91 I think, having done the Brands-based Winter Series in 1990 which I think would`ve been his introduction to car racing.

Ah..... Formula First..... those were the days......
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Old 5 Nov 2007, 11:10 (Ref:2060018)   #5
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Alan Raine should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridAlan Raine should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridAlan Raine should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridAlan Raine should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Formula First Cars were built by Van Dieman. They may have info.
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Old 5 Nov 2007, 11:15 (Ref:2060021)   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Green
Brands Hatch used them as race school cars for a few years too.
I think that Knockhill still use them for their "Race Experience" days.

They were pretty awful cars and my one abiding memory is of a race at Oulton Park that they tried to start on a couple of occasions but after three attempts were stopped due to first lap shunts the race was eventually abandonded!

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Old 5 Nov 2007, 11:17 (Ref:2060023)   #7
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andy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridandy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Might also be worth talking to Alan Cornock at FCS as he sometimes has F Firsts for sale and also has some old paperwork/ archive stuff.
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Old 5 Nov 2007, 11:25 (Ref:2060029)   #8
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Perhaps there's a need for another FFirst. Look at all the people it launched into motorsport. Surely its not beyond the relms of man to make a ss series with cars for, say, £5k which can be run from the back on a trailer? (Am I really suggesting yet another UK series - doh!)
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Old 5 Nov 2007, 13:13 (Ref:2060147)   #9
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I have pictures of the one sprinted by 3 of us in Borough 19 MC events. It had an HT engine on 45's + slicks(Zetec); it was damn fast; we put wings on it and they worked! Car was sold to a guy in herts a couple of years ago; think it has disappeared as no one has seen it recently.
Ideal car for fat blokes like me! PM me at fatboy@flatoutfarr.co.uk and I will sort some piccies out for you
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Old 5 Nov 2007, 13:18 (Ref:2060155)   #10
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Following on from the Oulton Parrk comments. I saw the first ever race at Brands Hatch.

IIRC it took three starts just to get past Paddock, Heather Baillie had a big one at the exit. The third start only got as far as Graham Hill.

I can remember that they were very tail happy cars due to the weight being a long way back. I think the engines were across the car rather than in line link on a Formule Ford.
Add in the fact that most drivers were in their first season and you can see why the pendulum effect usually took over.

The cars were used by Brands Hatch racing school for a time.

Only other things I can remember are that I think Cellnet (O2 for the younger members) sponsored them for a time, and that Ben Edwards won the championship
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Old 5 Nov 2007, 14:23 (Ref:2060275)   #11
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graeme...

I was going to suggest the same! Cheap, cheap cars, that could be run possibly arrive-n-drive (as I remember certain teams in FFirst used to advertise themselves as at the time). Something to give karters a chance to REALISTICALLY afford to race in, as a pre-cursor to FFord. Multiple series maybe - a la Caterham Academy groups 1 and 2. The people with the know-how to make such a thing succeed (MSV - past experience with FPA, Racing Club, circuits, etc, etc) read these forums apparently.....

(Apologies for digressing.... Just imagining the prospect of 25 youngsters in cheap-n-easy-to-fix single seaters doing say, a 3-meet, 9-race winter-series around Brands or Snett - I`d go and watch - but I`m a bit sad like that...).
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Old 6 Nov 2007, 03:29 (Ref:2060802)   #12
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Thanks for the posts guys.
I think the idea of a transverse engine/gearbox straight out of a common road car for use in an entry level racing car has lots of merit for the future. It would provide a five speed gearbox with ECU fuel injection, and only a few technical and car styling issues to resolve - ignoring any problems with the laws of physics. If an enthusiastic manufacturer could get behind the concept by ensuring a reliable supply of engine/'box parts for say twenty years, then it would be cheap and viable.
Farr, I'll PM you now.
Cheers
Ray
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Old 6 Nov 2007, 03:57 (Ref:2060810)   #13
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I found this on the FCS web site.....

Formula First was devised by Brands Hatch Racing School in 1987 as a low cost single seater race car which was affordable by the man in the street to enter Motor Sport.
The car uses a simple Van Diemen built space frame chassis, Formula Ford type suspension and is fitted with a dry sumped blue printed Ford Fiesta XR3 engine and gearbox.
A total of 158 cars have been produced over the years providing many people with cost effective racing and the concept remains in place to this day.
The latest version of the car developed by FCS is labelled "Fornula Eurofirst" and features revised body work and alloy racing wheels.
FCS act as exclusive dealers for Formula First and Eurofirst products on behalf of Van Diemen Int. All offer a full after sales and spares service for these cars.
They also specialise in the sale of new and used Eurofirst vehicles.
A 12 race series for Eurofirst is being organised by the BRSCC for year 2000 and full details of the various dates and venues will be available shortly.
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Old 6 Nov 2007, 07:41 (Ref:2060862)   #14
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andy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridandy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by graeme
Perhaps there's a need for another FFirst. Look at all the people it launched into motorsport. Surely its not beyond the relms of man to make a ss series with cars for, say, £5k which can be run from the back on a trailer? (Am I really suggesting yet another UK series - doh!)
Isn't it called F Vee?
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Old 6 Nov 2007, 09:00 (Ref:2060904)   #15
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Originally Posted by Elio
graeme...

I was going to suggest the same! Cheap, cheap cars, that could be run possibly arrive-n-drive (as I remember certain teams in FFirst used to advertise themselves as at the time). Something to give karters a chance to REALISTICALLY afford to race in, as a pre-cursor to FFord. Multiple series maybe - a la Caterham Academy groups 1 and 2. The people with the know-how to make such a thing succeed (MSV - past experience with FPA, Racing Club, circuits, etc, etc) read these forums apparently.....

(Apologies for digressing.... Just imagining the prospect of 25 youngsters in cheap-n-easy-to-fix single seaters doing say, a 3-meet, 9-race winter-series around Brands or Snett - I`d go and watch - but I`m a bit sad like that...).
Motor racing history is littered with such things. Formula First, Formula Forward, Zip, they all came and went.
They burst on the scene dressed up in flowery words about helping the youth of today to become the grand prix stars of tomorrow, but the reality is they are there to make someone a lot of money. When they fail to do so they are tossed on one side.
There is no cheap way of racing, just varying degrees of expense. Certainly no arrive and drive scheme can be cheap, the sums simply don't add up.
The cheapest way to go single seater racing is still the same as it always was. Buy a used car a FF, F vee, FR or whatever grabs you and a set of tools, get a mate to go with you and off you go.
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Old 6 Nov 2007, 09:00 (Ref:2060905)   #16
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Originally Posted by andy97
Isn't it called F Vee?
FVee does have a bit of an image problem - rusty old VW Beetle bits - which I guess isn't actually true. And I think to work, you'd have to be able to buy a new car off-the-shelf, which kinda scuppers FVee, FF1600 and a FFirst revival. Would have to be a 10+-year shelf life and no-one trying to fleece drivers for all their cash (so one set-up and no adjustments).

The Caterham Schiolarship/Academy did sort of take over the FFirst mantle for a few years, but its got very expensive now. Time for another starter series - if not ss or sportscars, then saloons? Dawoo Matiz Cup anyone??
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Old 6 Nov 2007, 09:31 (Ref:2060933)   #17
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However, FPA cannot have been a commercial/financial disaster. Definately not considering the cars are still being used 10 years along the line. I was thinking along the lines of a kind of Junior FPA - with cars A HELL OF A LOT CHEAPER than they must have been to produce. I suppose more along the line of BRDC single seaters, but less sophisticated.

I`m amazed they produced quite so many FFirst chassis. With that many we should`ve had a FFirst Festival down at Brands!
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Old 6 Nov 2007, 10:16 (Ref:2060963)   #18
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Cheap-cheap!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elio
I was thinking along the lines of a kind of Junior FPA - with cars A HELL OF A LOT CHEAPER than they must have been to produce. I suppose more along the line of BRDC single seaters, but less sophisticated.
You would be hard pushed to get an established constructor of racing cars to buy into the "HELL OF A LOT CHEAPER" concept. Just imagine the tooling costs alone, never mind the crash testing/safety aspects of a commercially marketed product!

I have to agree with an earlier contributor, there are plenty of cheap ways to start - FF1600, Formula Renault and FVee to name but three. The idea of a single chassis, cheap to buy & run racing car is fantastic but just not realistic!

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Old 6 Nov 2007, 16:22 (Ref:2061300)   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elio
However, FPA cannot have been a commercial/financial disaster. Definately not considering the cars are still being used 10 years along the line. I was thinking along the lines of a kind of Junior FPA - with cars A HELL OF A LOT CHEAPER than they must have been to produce. I suppose more along the line of BRDC single seaters, but less sophisticated.

I`m amazed they produced quite so many FFirst chassis. With that many we should`ve had a FFirst Festival down at Brands!

Where are they now? ok some went to schools, lots smashed even seen one covered for road use but there must be still 50+ sitting in garages waiting to be raced!

Looked at buying one when I was karting so much cheating go on though!
Example being teams making there own chassis with proper tubing but retaining the roll hoop! (any part of the chassis could be "repaired" except the roll hoop)
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Old 6 Nov 2007, 20:43 (Ref:2061503)   #20
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A good bunch of graduates when you look at it: Ben Edwards (Vauxhall Lotus/TV!), Eugene O'Brien (BTCC), Kelvin Burt (BTCC/F3 champ), Chris Goodwin (BTCC/Brit F3000), Thomas Erdos (Le Mans class winner/FRenault UK champ), James Rhodes (FRenault winner), Tim Stafford (ditto), Scott Lakin (F3), Bobby Verdon-Roe (BTCC/GTs), Olly Gavin (Le Mans/GTs/Brit F3 champ), Warren Hughes (Le Mans/BTCC), Guy Smith (Le Mans winner), Duncan Vercoe (Class B F3 champ), Darren Manning (IRL), Ben Collins (Indy Lights/sportscars), Peter Dumbreck (Macau F3 winner/GTs), James Seccombe (FRenault winner), Richard Westbrook (Porsche Supercup champ), Robbie Kerr (Brit F3 champ/A1GP), Danny Watts (F3/prototypes). I'm sure some of them would've got started in racing had Formula First not existed - but equally sure some wouldn't have been able to!
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Old 7 Nov 2007, 18:08 (Ref:2062333)   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elio
I`m amazed they produced quite so many FFirst chassis. With that many we should`ve had a FFirst Festival down at Brands!
There are hardly any left, most were written off, I think most of what remained was bought up by Knockhill and Goodwood race schools.

In it's heyday, 2 heats and a final was a regular thing with a handful not even getting into the heats, so it was a present day festival every weekend
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Old 8 Nov 2007, 07:32 (Ref:2062705)   #22
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andy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridandy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
They do still come up for sale from time to time. See here from late Oct 07:
http://www.racecarsdirect.com/viewli...php?view=12943
They are still eligible for Monoposto 1600, I think.
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Old 8 Nov 2007, 09:30 (Ref:2062782)   #23
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I also owned and competed in a F. Forward. They were good cars that were simple to run and were relatively quick and ideal for Lydden S/Seaters or Monopostos. Again, a fat bloke's car. I liked them ! Our F. First was great for sprinting and was competitive (in it's modifed form) and good fun and cheap to run (in the great scheme of things)
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Old 8 Nov 2007, 10:17 (Ref:2062831)   #24
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andy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridandy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by Flat Out Farr
I also owned and competed in a F. Forward. They were good cars that were simple to run and were relatively quick and ideal for Lydden S/Seaters or Monopostos. Again, a fat bloke's car. I liked them ! Our F. First was great for sprinting and was competitive (in it's modifed form) and good fun and cheap to run (in the great scheme of things)
The F Forward (nee Formula 2000) were also Van Dieman built and used exactly the same chassis as the F Vauxhall Junior
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Old 8 Nov 2007, 15:33 (Ref:2063097)   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy97
They do still come up for sale from time to time. See here from late Oct 07:
http://www.racecarsdirect.com/viewli...php?view=12943
They are still eligible for Monoposto 1600, I think.
Although the car above is in Denmark, Im sure i've seen one at Loton Park hillclimb last season.

Maybe Steve Wilkinson may be able to enlighten me more on this one
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