For anyone that thought the Williams a poor car...

Glen · 29 Jun 2003, 21:14 (Ref:646484)

It's quite clearly the best car at the moment, proving completely wrong those people that suggested they were getting lucky results because of the odd great drive and plenty of BMW power. Three completely different circuits, three great results - the chassis is every bit as good as the rest of the package, and if Rubens doesn't lift his game the WCC will drift towards Grove.

Mr V · 29 Jun 2003, 21:19 (Ref:646493)

It's looking good for the future isn't it, especially with the extended partnership between Williams and BMW

Damon · 29 Jun 2003, 21:20 (Ref:646495)

Sure is, I hope it continues and we can see how Williams go about dominating.

flor · 29 Jun 2003, 21:33 (Ref:646521)

the mclaren was the faster car today and ferrari..., well they use bridgestone

jetsetter · 29 Jun 2003, 21:36 (Ref:646527)

It looks as though Williams have got their act together, maybe they'll make a late championship charge.

flor · 29 Jun 2003, 21:46 (Ref:646537)

surely the tendency goes upwards

Glen · 29 Jun 2003, 21:56 (Ref:646544)

Quote:

Originally posted by flor
the mclaren was the faster car today and ferrari..., well they use bridgestone

I don't think I agree with that - the Ferrari was ok for MS, but he didn't look a threat for the race win. Might be tyres, but tyres are part of the car (esp when you look at the issue of how a car uses its tyres). McLaren wasn't all that great in the end - Kimi stopped early and would have carried that disadvantage through the rest of the race, but the car failed - if it doesn't finish, it isn't the fastest!

flor · 29 Jun 2003, 22:03 (Ref:646550)

when i said the mclaren was the fastest car(fastest lap K. Räikkönen 1:32.621 L14), i didn't mean the williams wasn't the best today, you are right with your sight that you have to finish to have the best car

**Adam43** · 29 Jun 2003, 22:53 (Ref:646586)

I'm not sure about "quite clearly". The last three or so races have been good for Williams, but not by a great margin.

Each GP could give us a different 'best' car at the moment. Good stuff.

One thing that does bode well for Williams is that it went well at a fairly typical modern GP track (perhap it can be argued both Monaco and Montreal aren't this). It seems that the aero side of this car isn't that bad afterall.

Dutton · 29 Jun 2003, 22:53 (Ref:646587)

Well, indeed, things are looking intersting this year. Williams have absolutely sorted themselves out, Mclaren are being as decent as ever - who knows what the new car might do if it is ever raced....

Ferrari and Bridgestone need to get their fingers out. Rubens needs to raise his game. Michael needs to stop making mistakes. I thank any Gods that may exist for letting Ferrari, essentially, everything considered, get away with a bearable - not acceptable, but bearable - result. Hopefully, Ferrari can sort themselves out a bit and make sure they are consistently there or there abouts, and let Mclaren and Williams take points off of each other.

This season is turning into the sort that I love the most and hate the most! Love it in that it is close, competitive, tense and by no means certain whether or not we are going ro prevail (either on the day, or overall). Hate it because the titles may not come our way.

Unquestionably, though, it is better 2003 style than 2002!

This season is going to be HARD WORK, no question about that.

**********

P.S. - How much have this years rules attributed to this?

A bit, sure, in that it has accounted for abnormal starting postions coupled with some fuel-load/speed ratio judgements in qualy.

Essentially, though, it is for two reason in my mind:

1) Michelin have sorted themselves out.

2) Mclaren and Williams have made the superior speed increase, relative to Ferrari, which they needed to make to bring close racing back.

It strikes me things would still have been close had the regulations remained the same as 2002. It is the natural, cyclical nature of Formula One.

Thoughts?

Glen · 29 Jun 2003, 23:25 (Ref:646607)

Quote:

Originally posted by AdamAshmore
I'm not sure about "quite clearly". The last three or so races have been good for Williams, but not by a great margin.

Each GP could give us a different 'best' car at the moment. Good stuff.

One thing that does bode well for Williams is that it went well at a fairly typical modern GP track (perhap it can be argued both Monaco and Montreal aren't this). It seems that the aero side of this car isn't that bad afterall.

It's the mix of circuits, with only Montreal being a "power" track, that is so encouraging. Magny Cours is going to a be a tough test, but based on how well they went today I reckon they will be quick there too.

dretceterini · 29 Jun 2003, 23:27 (Ref:646611)

It's nice to see that more than one marque is capable of winning. It hasn't been that way for some time..

Dutton · 29 Jun 2003, 23:41 (Ref:646621)

I will go back to 1994 due to the dramatic regulation alterations following the 1993 (another "crisis" period, as I recall) season.

***********

Well, dret, lest yee not get carried away.

Yes, 2002 was a walk-over.

In 2001 Ferrari were certainly dominant, but that was not purely an inherent advantage in my view: Michael did a superb job, Mika wasn't the same, and, as such, it was down to RB or DC to take the fight to Ferrari (never going to be too successful...). Williams, too, messed up some great opportunities.

2000 was, to my mind, a thoroughly good season.

1999 SHOULD have been an outright Mclaren show, but they did a lot of screwing up and Michael was injured (arguably the key factor) so that kept it close.

1998 started a bit depressing, but Ferrari and Michael managed to make it a tense affair.

In 1997 it was a 1998/99 mix for Willaims. A strange year, that one.

1996 was a Williams benefit, no doubt, but at least Michael was there as, effectively, the "wildcard" factor.

1995 was a semi-competitive year, which could've been closer were Hill not so able, at that point, to screw up so much.

1994: a very interesting, and ultimately close, year, but dogged by too many negative influences.

**********

I think, overall, the seasons have not turned out that bad...

***********

Edited for typos.

Jukebox · 30 Jun 2003, 02:48 (Ref:646723)

Two wins this this season dosen't mean much Glen....i still say the Macs are better than them and Ferrari are miles ahead. I think this type of thread and oh the other thread.... 'Could Williams win the WDC this year' is not relevant at all.....as if they have did a hattrick

Lee Janotta · 30 Jun 2003, 03:08 (Ref:646726)

Maybe the car of the _month_, not the season. The McLaren is the best car right now, followed closely by the Ferrari.

You're jumping the gun because Rubens and Coultard are making their cars look awful, while Montoya and Ralf are both looking very strong the last month.

TeddyG · 30 Jun 2003, 03:20 (Ref:646736)

It's tyres more than anything...Ferrari still have the best car but the Bridgestones are ****...McLaren is second as Kimi would have won the race easily had his car not blown up. Williams is third best with plenty of BMW grunt making them look better than they are. Still they have improved dramatically.

**Peter Mallett** · 30 Jun 2003, 06:02 (Ref:646766)

Interesting that Frank Dernie is back. He was fired last time round but maybe his styling suits the curtrent regs. Don't forget we still haven't seen the new Macaroon so let's not get too excited. Still, two wins for Team Willy and some good regular points positions are setting up a good second half of the season.

Mark Webber · 30 Jun 2003, 07:59 (Ref:646850)

well hell yes they have improved but it is not the best car not by a long shot

Jukebox · 30 Jun 2003, 08:02 (Ref:646854)

Quote:

Originally posted by Lee Janotta
The McLaren is the best car right now, followed closely by the Ferrari.

That would be the biggest joke of them all

ljakse · 30 Jun 2003, 08:27 (Ref:646881)

I still think Ferrari has the best car!

It's just that TGF (for the reasons he only knows)is not performing as good as he could, and Rubinho is just performing as good as he is able to(not much IMHO).
Sure, Macs and Willies can outperform them occasionaly, but that's more to the drivers than the cars (again all of this is IMO).

Glen · 30 Jun 2003, 08:45 (Ref:646901)

It is the mix of circuits - and only one of them a traditional engine circuit. It no longer makes sense to argue that the chassis is lacking and the engine is saving them (it never made sense in the first place - just look where Sauber and Toyota are with two of the best motors) because they have scored at a pure mechanical chassis track, followed by more of a straight grunt/brakes track, and now at a modern aero-efficiency circuit. The McLaren may have looked stronger, but it was running light and marginal and couldn't finish. If Bridgestone catch up the Ferrari will be better I'm sure - but the tyres are part of the car, so you can't really separate them.

Even if one doesn't score them top they have to be considered level and very competitive - and for sure they have proved their detractors totally wrong

climb · 30 Jun 2003, 09:23 (Ref:646936)

Maybe i have posted the wropmng thread, but i repeat here that imo tires are teh first issue:
The old Mac was dominating the race until engine failure; Fw told italian TV just after the race that "we have excellent tires".
Thus, i don't want to rule out those who praise FW 25 chassis, but facts are very clear.

Smokey 6 litre · 2 Jul 2003, 08:43 (Ref:649316)

i think the next group of GPs should suit Williams, and with them getting faster all the time the season should have a good end, how long has it been (if ever) that 3 drivers go into the last race with a chance of winning the title, thats what i would love to see, Kimmi, TGF and Monty all fighting at Suzuka for the WDC.

Irv the Swerve · 2 Jul 2003, 08:59 (Ref:649326)

Quote:

Originally posted by Smokey 6 litre
Kimmi, TGF and Monty all fighting at Suzuka for the WDC.

and Ralf of course.

Well he has scored at every round and that counts in championships.

**Dani Filth** · 2 Jul 2003, 09:04 (Ref:649332)

why not four .. also Ralf ..

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