No Works Skoda Team in the WRC in 2006

[rdjones]

I have just seen on BBC Sport Online that Skoda will not run a factory team in the 2006 World Rally Championship, but it will support two private outfits

More at:- http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ly/4513372.stm

I'm not that suprised at this news, so no drive for Colin next year.

[GeeRam]

Yikes.....does that leave just Ford and Subaru as the only 2 'works' WRC teams then for 2006...???

I think it's high time the FIA did a drastic about-turn and got rallying back to what it used be, i.e a mix of driving/navigation and endurance, instead of this silly office hours 3 day, sprint event format it's become, before the WRC disappears up it's own exhaust pipe into oblivion

[BertMk2]

Whilst it's not unexpected it's still bad news At least the cars will still be competing in private hands though so they're not going to vanish completely. Have Mitsubishi commited to next year yet? If not then it's going to be a lightweight year for sure, Citroen are due back in 2007 but that's still not really a full complement is it?

[rallycrosscraig]

Dave Richards will have nothing left to promote unless they change things.

What kind of 'world' rally championship has only 2 works teams and not even a British driver? Its made even less spectacular by the current regs which mean the cars are rarely driven sideways.

Maybe the WRC TV slot's would be better used if the WRC programes were replaced with some Rallycross events?

[GeeRam]

Originally Posted by rallycrosscraig

Maybe the WRC TV slot's would be better used if the WRC programes were replaced with some Rallycross events?

If only........

[leonidas]

Originally Posted by rdjones

I'm not that suprised at this news, so no drive for Colin next year.

As I understand it Red Bull are still looking for a second driver to partner Andreas Aigner [sp?]. But whether they have the budget for Colin and whether Colin would drive for a non-works outfit is another matter...

[FIRE]

Drivers like McRae, Duval, Panizzi and Gardemeister are not allowed to drive in these Skodas because they are runned by Manufacturer 2-teams. Cars entered by M2 teams can only be driven by drivers who did not finish in the top 6 of the final results of the chamionship in the last 5 years.

[leonidas]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Drivers like McRae, Duval, Panizzi and Gardemeister are not allowed to drive in these Skodas because they are runned by Manufacturer 2-teams. Cars entered by M2 teams can only be driven by drivers who did not finish in the top 6 of the final results of the chamionship in the last 5 years.

You're right - but I thought they were going to relax this rule if several factories pulled out (PSA/Skoda)? It seems crazy that some of the best drivers could be excluded from the championship...

[FIRE]

Maybe these drivers are allowed if M2 teams rebuild their 2005 spec cars to M1 cars (i.e. no water injection, no electric diffs)?

[rallycrosscraig]

WRC seems to have quite a few rules that are leading to its downfall.

Watching McRae in that Skoda in Australia was one of the high points of the WRC last year.

But here we have a rule preventing him from driving that car next year. Crazy

[Matthews Dad]

Thought that 2006 Skodas were going to be non active diffs etc MSN have article on this and are still saying the Mcrae is in the frame for a drive in one of the Red Bull Cars, with Francois Duval also in the frame

[GTRMagic]

I read some things recently in Autosport that almost suggested that the Skodas would run better in a private team than in a factory environment?

This was more specifically around Armin Schwarz's squad....

It would be nice to see Mr McRae in a Schwarz Red Bull car... with works support from a budget perspective as opposed to preparation...

[Hazza]

Spoken by none other than David Richards, as a matter of fact!

[chunder]

Never really understood Skodas driver line up this year, I mean Schwarz has done the main part of naff all foir his entire career! And yes he is probly a reliable man and a good engineer, but he is hardly top drawer pace wise!
The best results they looked like getting were with a blooming touring car driver who had a dabble!
Colin made the car look very good aswell, it is clear it has potential and with him on board he would dirve the development his way, something he was not allowed to do at Citroen i imagine!
He is perfect Red Bull fodder aswell i would think, i just hope he doesnt ask for too much money! He was good in GB and also in Oz, would get regular top 6 finishes in my view

[Alibell]

What will this do for WRC in the long run.
It's gone from competing with F1 for viewing to only 2 works support in 2 years..
And with no Colin McRae, will there still be WRC on ITV..??
As there is no home drivers.
The good publicity Skoda would receive would help their GB sales no end.
wouldn't it be great to see Lancia, Audi, Mazda, Seat back to stir things up.
There need to be great competition, between manufacturers.

[chunder]

The thing that amazes me about people like Skoda, Hyundai and Toyota for that matter us that they dont sell a comparable raod version of the car.|Surely this is why Subaru went from being a farmers car to an extremely desirable road rocket that has waiting lists for the new models! I admit McRae played a part too, but Ford sold a load of Cossies and Remnault sold the Williams cars didnt they!
Peugeot, Citroen, Hyundai, Skoda and Ford with the Focus have never really linked a road car in with the WRC programme. Whether it be a special edition or anything. The only companies that did were Mitsubishi, Subaru and to a certain extent SEAT and they have gone on to big things as a result!
Should I be in marketing or is there some otehr reason

[WJM]

Originally Posted by chunder

The thing that amazes me about people like Skoda, Hyundai and Toyota for that matter us that they dont sell a comparable raod version of the car.|Surely this is why Subaru went from being a farmers car to an extremely desirable road rocket that has waiting lists for the new models! I admit McRae played a part too, but Ford sold a load of Cossies and Remnault sold the Williams cars didnt they!
Peugeot, Citroen, Hyundai, Skoda and Ford with the Focus have never really linked a road car in with the WRC programme. Whether it be a special edition or anything. The only companies that did were Mitsubishi, Subaru and to a certain extent SEAT and they have gone on to big things as a result!
Should I be in marketing or is there some otehr reason

Subaru and Mitsu aim to market that particular car. They are sport cars, so it's the association Rally = sport --> my car is good at rally --> my car = sport. While the likes of Citroen and Peugeot promote their general image by putting the most ordinary looking family car and making it win. You buy a Citroen because it's succes, not because it makes you look sporty. If they make too much of a WRC lookalike for the road, it won't be interesting to buy a normal Xsara, because the connection with the wrc is lost. Subaru/Mitsu as well as Peugeot/Citroen are actually very succesful with their aproach. The Impreza and EVO are culthits, while the Xsara and especially the 206 make huge sales. Best illustration of this is Spain. When Sainz drove for Citroen, the Xsara was by far the bestselling car in the country. In fact it was the only country where the Xsara outsaled the 206.
I hope I made some sense?

[chunder]

I didnt know that, that is a fascinating stat!
I then think back to whole idea behind WRC and that was that you could make a rally version of a basic road car without having to homologate 500 specilas like Ford or Lancia used to do.
But then, that also the makers to mae really good road cars like the Integrale, the Celica GT4 and the early Lancers and Imprezas.
Yes I think they are cult cars, but only coz of rallying in my opinion.
Same as the Skyline and Silvia models of Nissan are cult coz of the street racing and drift scene in Japan, and as a result are getting more popular over here, even though most of them werent sold. I blame Gran Turismo!
The reality is that being involved in WRC has to offer some return to the maker. Peugeot are looking at Le Mans and thinking "if we can win with a diesel the marketing potential is enormous" As for Mitsubishi, i am shocked as their results this year have been good

[WJM]

Originally Posted by chunder

I then think back to whole idea behind WRC and that was that you could make a rally version of a basic road car without having to homologate 500 specilas like Ford or Lancia used to do.

Not really because a WRC is based on a Group A car. That's why you sometimes see a Peugeot 206 with very big bumpers, but no wing/skirts/etc. They are not driven by morons who couldn't afford more tuning, they simply drive a WRC. Those big bumpers where mounted on 2500(?) standard 206's to make it a new type. This way the car could be homologated. This is because a standard 206 is too short. Same goes for the Fabia.
The addition WRC to Group A is that the parts are also homolgated. So you can't drive with anything other then what you homologated. You can only homologate an additional x amount (I thought it was 5) of parts every few months. In theory the differences between teams should not increase fast this way, simply because you can only get a few changes in season. The downside is that for a privateer you need to get all the homolgated parts at once to be able to start. Opposed to normal Group A where you could pick a car from the street and evolve it every time you won some prizemoney.

But then, that also the makers to mae really good road cars like the Integrale, the Celica GT4 and the early Lancers and Imprezas.
Yes I think they are cult cars, but only coz of rallying in my opinion. Same as the Skyline and Silvia models of Nissan are cult coz of the street racing and drift scene in Japan, and as a result are getting more popular over here, even though most of them werent sold. I blame Gran Turismo!

Well they had to be good because Group A requires 2500(?) pieces of one car to homologate it. The Integrale and Celica GT4 are the Impreza and Lancer of the past, their image is indeed solely based on rallying. But nobody remembers the Opel Ascona, VW Golf MKII, Mazda 323, etc. Soon the Xsara, Fabia, Accent etc. will be forgotten as well, while the EVO and Impreza will live on as the Delta and Celica already do.

[The STIG]

I belive the world rally car rules were brought in (around 1997) so that a manufactuer didn't have to build any road cars differently in order to compete - which is why you don't have 4wd Peugeots, Citroens, Skodas (not fabias)etc. The rules allow them to build a 4wd version which also includes a lot of technology with out having to offer a similar model. The rule was brought in to attract manufactuers to the sport - but it's ending up driving them away!

*** additional ***

The rules state that the car must be based on a 4 seat road car with a production run of over 25,000. But teams are allowed to re shape the nose and add areodynamic bits to it, as well as the 4 wheel drive system and not offer the reusulting car for sale as a road car.

[GeeRam]

Originally Posted by The STIG

I belive the world rally car rules were brought in (around 1997) so that a manufactuer didn't have to build any road cars differently in order to compete

The rules allow them to build a 4wd version which also includes a lot of technology with out having to offer a similar model. The rule was brought in to attract manufactuers to the sport - but it's ending up driving them away!

Exactly, and plenty of people I know within rallying predicted exactly this scenario.

The road version of that homologation special is what the public identified with, and why the phrase 'race on Sunday'....'sell on Monday' was so apt.

Citroen may have had the car to beat during the last couple of seasons, but I bet that hasn't been translated into hoards of people running into Citroen dealers to buy a Xsara.....as the WRC Citroen bears absolutley no relations ship to anything in a Citroen dealership.......

Unlike what rallying did for the Cooper S, Escort RS1600, Sunbeam-Lotus, UR Quattro, Integrale, Escort Cosworth, Imprezza 22B, EVO, etc.,etc.

I firmly believe rallying must move away from short 'sprint' events and return back to the older style longer format events, with night stages.
Ban four wheel drive, and most manufacterers have a 2.0 hot hatch to develop a suitable homolgation special for rallying.
Cost could be reduced by no practice and rallies run as 'secret' events like the RAC used to be until a few years ago, so no pace notes needed, and all the back up stuff teams seem to need that drives costs up, with full recce's needed, ice note crews, tyre note crews, and god knows what else.

[The STIG]

The problem with a secret route is that no one knows where it is...

so how the spectator going to get there to spectate?

more night stages would be a good idea though. and I think that the WRC should return to a production based formula. Super 2000 sounds good, provided the manufacturer make the homologation specials

[chunder]

As I have said before I think the FIA did a good job reducing costs as it is, I think the trouble is the amount of rallies.
Why have so many rounds! You only need between 10 and 12 to have a good championship.
Bringing longer events brings more problems, if you have a Safari, you have to have and develpo a Safari car, which is why it isnt there any more.
It is bad enough having to have asphalt and gravel cars!
I dont think the FIA can be blamed here, they have tried hard to cut costs, it is just rallying is going through a trough, the regs are tired and stale, it needs a new formula and a kick up the arse to get everyone interested again!

[GeeRam]

Originally Posted by The STIG

The problem with a secret route is that no one knows where it is...

so how the spectator going to get there to spectate?

Errr.....no, it's called secret only because practice and pace notes arn't allowed

The crews and teams are given the route some time in advance when issued with the routebook for the event. Similar for the spectators, marshall's etc.,etc.

[WJM]

Originally Posted by GeeRam

Errr.....no, it's called secret only because practice and pace notes arn't allowed

The crews and teams are given the route some time in advance when issued with the routebook for the event. Similar for the spectators, marshall's etc.,etc.

The problem is that at least over here, the police must make a report, in advance, about the route that's going to be followed. Those reports are public because it happens on public roads. So anyone who wants to recce, just makes a stop at every local counsil to see the report. Unless of course it will be a navigationrally without closed roads.