Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Classic Cars Monthly Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Historic Racing & Motorsport History > Historic Racing Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 5 Oct 2022, 12:53 (Ref:4128752)   #91
john ruston
The Scarlet Pimpernel
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location:
Retired roaming
Posts: 5,250
john ruston has a real shot at the podium!john ruston has a real shot at the podium!john ruston has a real shot at the podium!john ruston has a real shot at the podium!
Quote:
Originally Posted by hanuman View Post
Have to say this is total unmitigated nonsense. Drivers wanted to win the JCB historic races in the 1970's and the Lloyds and Scottish ones in the 1980s just as much. Neil Corner and Willie Green drove as fast and competitively as the drivers in the TT today. ERA's in the 1960s had telescopic suspension systems and GTO's had super wide tyres and flared wheel arches. I was looking at photographs the other day of Colin Crabbe driving Aston Martin DP214 in the late 60's and it looked heavily modified. I think the idea that historic racing was once a pure experience with fields full of highly original cars just doesn't stack up.



It's quite possible to enjoy watching a former Formula 1 World Champion driving an E Type superbly, even if one knows that the car in question has been highly developed since it raced in period. There's probably a point at which things cross a line, and it's a shame that a lot of the more thoroughbred cars (GTO's mainly) no longer enter the TT Celebration but that's a product of financial values rather than the spirit of historic racing. Funny too that the Newey E Type is a genuine Lightweight, far more original in that sense than many of the recent winners of that race, and yet it has got a lot of people riled up.
So a response to the expert in Historic Racing!
It’s surprising that operations like Peter Auto who run the best historic series in Europe certainly police their competition cars scrupulously and cars like the Goodwood Jag would not be allowed to run.
Goodwood allows specially developed cars .
That’s the bottom line. Certainly a car like the Jaguar in question would not stand scrutiny for papers but if the operators at Goodwood want that type of event it’s their decision and nobody else’s .
Not sure it does much for Historic Racing overall but that’s not the name of the game in many peoples eyes.
About twenty GT40’s at Spa at weekend! Wonder where they came from
One was pretty quick for top speed! Seems to be more Racing Cobras Daytonas GT40’s Listers E types etc etc being built these days than in period
Imagine how difficult it is to police this situation should you want to!
john ruston is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Oct 2022, 13:04 (Ref:4128753)   #92
morninggents
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
England
Up north, near York.
Posts: 2,520
morninggents should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by hanuman View Post
Have to say this is total unmitigated nonsense. Drivers wanted to win the JCB historic races in the 1970's and the Lloyds and Scottish ones in the 1980s just as much. Neil Corner and Willie Green drove as fast and competitively as the drivers in the TT today. ERA's in the 1960s had telescopic suspension systems and GTO's had super wide tyres and flared wheel arches. I was looking at photographs the other day of Colin Crabbe driving Aston Martin DP214 in the late 60's and it looked heavily modified. I think the idea that historic racing was once a pure experience with fields full of highly original cars just doesn't stack up.

I think the recent criticisms relate to the cars, not the celebrity drivers. Jenson Button is a class act and would have put a far less modified car in a competitive position.
It's the cars (and their owners' 'must win at any cost' ambition) that are the problem. Race cars have always been modified as they get older to keep them competitive and that is the nature of the game. But putting telescopic suspension on ERAs and wide tyres and arches on GTOs can no way compare with the monstrous creations around today.
morninggents is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Oct 2022, 14:02 (Ref:4128767)   #93
Mike Crow
Racer
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 240
Mike Crow should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Why the obsession about the TT and St Marys Trophy? They are but two races in a whole cornucopia of historic racing available in the UK.
They are what they are and they are enormously entertaining examples of great cars being driven by great drivers. They have their audience and that audience comes every year to see them.

If you don’t like them then there is no need to complain. There is plenty to watch almost every weekend in the season with enough variety from strictly original to highly modified to please all of us.
Mike Crow is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Oct 2022, 14:59 (Ref:4128771)   #94
justracing
Veteran
 
justracing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
United Kingdom
West Sussex
Posts: 2,123
justracing should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridjustracing should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Crow View Post
There is plenty to watch almost every weekend in the season with enough variety from strictly original to highly modified to please all of us.
Absolutely spot on, along with a few others on here, I travel around to all manner of events throughout the year and recognize the difference in the way that various series are run and respect them as such.
I seem to remember Doug Nye having a similar disparity discussion some years back on the same subject as being tossed back and forth on here, it's all been aired before. As to the rights and wrongs I don't think there is a conclusive argument, the Goodwood Revival and the MM's are what they are - tongue in cheek reminiscences and very entertaining.
justracing is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Oct 2022, 16:10 (Ref:4128781)   #95
Mike Crow
Racer
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 240
Mike Crow should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I actually got a letter published in Motor Sport in reply to Doug Nye’s article on the same subject. I was irrationally pleased with myself.

The gist of the letter was that he was at the top looking down and saw only the upper layer and I was at the bottom looking up and saw all the multiple and beguiling layers.

There is still much to enjoy
Mike Crow is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Oct 2022, 17:05 (Ref:4128785)   #96
Aysedasi
Team Crouton
20KPINAL
 
Aysedasi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
England
Lymington, New Forest, England
Posts: 37,782
Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Crow View Post
I actually got a letter published in Motor Sport in reply to Doug Nye’s article on the same subject. I was irrationally pleased with myself.

The gist of the letter was that he was at the top looking down and saw only the upper layer and I was at the bottom looking up and saw all the multiple and beguiling layers.

There is still much to enjoy
Once again, I completely agree.
Aysedasi is offline  
__________________
192 days...
Quote
Old 5 Oct 2022, 18:03 (Ref:4128795)   #97
justracing
Veteran
 
justracing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
United Kingdom
West Sussex
Posts: 2,123
justracing should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridjustracing should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Crow View Post
I actually got a letter published in Motor Sport in reply to Doug Nye’s article on the same subject. I was irrationally pleased with myself.

The gist of the letter was that he was at the top looking down and saw only the upper layer and I was at the bottom looking up and saw all the multiple and beguiling layers.

There is still much to enjoy
Pleased for you and even more pleased that it wasn't my memory failing again, I knew I had read it somewhere!
justracing is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Oct 2022, 09:11 (Ref:4128861)   #98
hanuman
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 24
hanuman should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by john ruston View Post
So a response to the expert in Historic Racing!
It’s surprising that operations like Peter Auto who run the best historic series in Europe certainly police their competition cars scrupulously and cars like the Goodwood Jag would not be allowed to run.
Goodwood allows specially developed cars .
That’s the bottom line. Certainly a car like the Jaguar in question would not stand scrutiny for papers but if the operators at Goodwood want that type of event it’s their decision and nobody else’s .
Not sure it does much for Historic Racing overall but that’s not the name of the game in many peoples eyes.
About twenty GT40’s at Spa at weekend! Wonder where they came from
One was pretty quick for top speed! Seems to be more Racing Cobras Daytonas GT40’s Listers E types etc etc being built these days than in period
Imagine how difficult it is to police this situation should you want to!

Interested to know specifically why the Jag would not pass scrutiny elsewhere. I can see that it's running lower to the ground than an original Lightweight and some people have already commented that the bodywork has been smoothed off (in the Red Bull wind tunnel) but on the other hand it is a genuine Lightweight (ex-Phil Scragg etc). At Silverstone Classic, for instance, there are a number of 'new' cars running in the same category such as the Daytona Cobra which don't run at Goodwood. So which events are more strict? The Members Meeting seems to me to be more relaxed in this respect than the Revival. Genuine questions....
hanuman is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Oct 2022, 09:19 (Ref:4128862)   #99
Mike Harte
Subscriber
Veteran
 
Mike Harte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
United Kingdom
W. Yorkshire
Posts: 4,478
Mike Harte is going for a new world record!Mike Harte is going for a new world record!Mike Harte is going for a new world record!Mike Harte is going for a new world record!Mike Harte is going for a new world record!Mike Harte is going for a new world record!Mike Harte is going for a new world record!
I would assume that it is very likely unable to obtain an FIA HTP certificate because it has been so heavily modified since being owned by it's current owner. I can only imagine what work has been done to the car that cannot be seen by just looking at it.
Mike Harte is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Oct 2022, 09:46 (Ref:4128865)   #100
Peter Mallett
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
 
Peter Mallett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
England
Here and there
Posts: 36,375
Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!
It's probably got an HTP but may have been modified since it was issued. If the bodywork doesn't match the profile of the original build then it is unlikely to comply. Up to period D, cars must have 100mm clearance, 60mm for period E onwards. Any suspension component must be as per the original and located in the original position. I'm not suggesting it is non compliant, but from comments here it does appear to be different from the original.
Peter Mallett is offline  
Quote
Old 8 Oct 2022, 05:13 (Ref:4129117)   #101
Gerard C
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2013
French Polynesia
My place
Posts: 7,369
Gerard C should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridGerard C should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridGerard C should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Harte View Post
I can only imagine what work has been done to the car that cannot be seen by just looking at it.
Are you sure its not a copy of the original car? As to check the body, we're talking about GW not Nascar. How do you imagine you could check all the suspension mounting points location? And the subframes?

Engine power, ride height, bonnet shape apart, ask any E Type driver bout the brakes…

Just to say because I enjoyed the show and really dont care about the compliancy of cars. 'f course any E Type cant match a Cobra, this is obvious and has always been the case. Its just a show. And I like it.
Gerard C is offline  
Quote
Old 14 Oct 2022, 08:07 (Ref:4130192)   #102
Duddha
Racer
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
United Nations
Geneva, Switzerland
Posts: 446
Duddha should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridDuddha should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Mallett View Post
It's probably got an HTP but may have been modified since it was issued. If the bodywork doesn't match the profile of the original build then it is unlikely to comply. Up to period D, cars must have 100mm clearance, 60mm for period E onwards. Any suspension component must be as per the original and located in the original position. I'm not suggesting it is non compliant, but from comments here it does appear to be different from the original.
Nope it does not have papers, it's 100mm in Period E and F unless you run a Single Seater or Two-Seater Racing Car.
Duddha is offline  
__________________
The good, the bad, the ugly, it's the law.
Quote
Old 14 Oct 2022, 08:17 (Ref:4130193)   #103
Peter Mallett
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
 
Peter Mallett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
England
Here and there
Posts: 36,375
Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duddha View Post
Nope it does not have papers, it's 100mm in Period E and F unless you run a Single Seater or Two-Seater Racing Car.
Yes, I stand corrected thank you. I was reading the regs from my phone so missed the distinction between type of car.
Peter Mallett is offline  
Quote
Old 14 Oct 2022, 08:25 (Ref:4130197)   #104
Duddha
Racer
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
United Nations
Geneva, Switzerland
Posts: 446
Duddha should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridDuddha should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by hanuman View Post
Interested to know specifically why the Jag would not pass scrutiny elsewhere. I can see that it's running lower to the ground than an original Lightweight and some people have already commented that the bodywork has been smoothed off (in the Red Bull wind tunnel) but on the other hand it is a genuine Lightweight (ex-Phil Scragg etc). At Silverstone Classic, for instance, there are a number of 'new' cars running in the same category such as the Daytona Cobra which don't run at Goodwood. So which events are more strict? The Members Meeting seems to me to be more relaxed in this respect than the Revival. Genuine questions....
All events are relaxed, it's not about compliance, it's about getting cars and entries for promoters. How many cars are changed once papers are issued? That's the problem and the fact that no one has actually ever opened the rulebook. How many times do I get asked the "is this legal?" when it is since forever and the other way around too.
Duddha is offline  
__________________
The good, the bad, the ugly, it's the law.
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Goodwood Revival Sep 6/7/8 josvandeperre Historic Racing Today 5 11 Apr 2002 21:19
Steam Train to Goodwood Revival Meeting anyone?! Jenny Historic Racing Today 4 4 Apr 2002 13:20
Goodwood Revival Marshal Trackside 12 14 Sep 2001 23:43
thoughts on Goodwood Revival... Francesca Motorsport History 9 25 May 2000 18:23
Goodwood Revival - Costume Question Liz Trackside 11 26 Apr 2000 21:37


All times are GMT. The time now is 04:29.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.